[EricK]

The figures are quite confusing because 18+ including distribution will remove the weakest balanced hands from a normal precision 1♣ sample so we might expect this to increase the chance of game, but in fact it decreases it. This is what lead me to my conclusion.

I still may be misunderstanding though.

Eric

[tysen2k]

EricK, on Sep 22 2005, 01:41 PM, said:

The figures are quite confusing because 18+ including distribution will remove the weakest balanced hands from a normal precision 1♣ sample so we might expect this to increase the chance of game, but in fact it decreases it. This is what lead me to my conclusion.

18+ with distribution will remove the 16 HCP balanced hands (making it stronger) but will add some distributional hands that are <16 HCP (making it weaker). So overall, the chances for game are all about the same. It just shows that 8 HCP is still about right for making a positive response. Let me know if you are still confused.

[Chamaco]

inquiry, on Sep 22 2005, 05:33 PM, said:

Chamaco, on Sep 22 2005, 11:47 AM, said:

Agree.
Strong Club is supposed to guarantee some defensive power.

AKxxxx-AJxxxx-x-void

Should not be a strong club opener, but would be evaluated so, using zar.

Might I suggest MisIry even playing Strong club? :-)

Sure Ben

As a matter of fact I think that 4-losers 2-suiters should be opened with something else than a strong club, even when they guarantee, say, some 16-18 hcp.


I tried to experiment Misiry and propose to my pards but that was not so well accepted.

So now we open 4-loser TOUCHING 2 suiters with 2S, and 4-losers NONTOUCHING 2 suiters with 2NT.

We lose some preemption:
- no Unusual 2NT opener (but often this does backfire, so we are not desperate about this)
- no natural weak 2 in spades, nor Muiderberg 2's: that's worse, we play 2D Multi and 2H as Precision 3suiter short in diamonds.

We gain:
- the opportunity to anticipate opponent's preemption, or to be able to better explain opener's hand if opps stick in.
- in contructive bidding: the big club opener has more rarely a 55+, and when he does, it's a battleship (3-losers or less).
- we protect our big club from preemption: most of the times the hand is either one suiter or (semi)balanced or featureless (5332,5422, 5431, etc). The 64 or 74 hands are still problematic, but at least we have removed some of the problem hads (55+, where after preemption it becomes hard to show the 2nd suit).

[mr1303]

In the EBU, I believe it is currently illegal to have an agreement to open 1C with less than 16 HCP.

Which of course is silly, but then these rules and regs sometimes are.

[mycroft]

From the IBLF, this is David Stevenson (on the EBU Laws and Ethics Committee), talking about their decision that "we don't want 1C any 15+ to be level 3, but we want all our 16+ strong clubbers to not be breaking the Laws when they decide to open AKJT874 AKT 54 9 1C - as they all already do":

"While decisions by the English Laws & Ethics Committee are not final, and are not even official until the minutes are published, it is no secret that they decided that in future a Strong Club/Strong Diamond opening should show by a agreement a minimum of 16 HCP or Rule of 25, and that the strong part of an Either/Or Club should show the same."

So, soon. Those people who want to play MOSCITO with 1C starting at 15 or equivalent are still L3 out of luck, however, and explicitly so (as, among other things, the transfer openings will come in at a reasonable level).

Michael.

[david_c]

mycroft, on Sep 26 2005, 08:33 PM, said:

Those people who want to play MOSCITO with 1C starting at 15 or equivalent are still L3 out of luck, however

Actually you can't play it at L4 either.

We're very lucky in England to have a Laws and Ethics Committee which (for the most part) makes lots of very sensible decisions. However the strong club regulations are a disaster area.