[pigpenz]

i voted for 2♠, in a gf sequence i wouldnt play this as showing extravalues.

[whereagles]

2♠. This should show extras, and I do have them.

[inquiry]

As predictable, this was not a great problem for different answers. For those of you who thought it would be unanimous for 2♠, however, I submit the following two pieces of info. The expert at the table bid 2♥ with this hand, as did one of our resident yellow gold stars:

Reisig I play 2S here would be a bit better hand ...so I'm stuck with 2H...but can be talked into 2S cheaply ..1 drink would likely do it!

As richie and many others point out, rebidding 2♥ is ok even with a five card suit, and rebidding 2♠ shows extras. All the remaining panelist voted for 2♠. Fred gave what for me was the most thoughtful answer to this simple problem. I particularly like his description of what constitutes extra value on this auction.

FRED 2S - I suppose this is a more a question of partnership than anything else. In my partnerships a 2H rebid promises neither 6 hearts nor a strong 5-card suit. In other words, you can bid 2H painlessly whenever none of the other bids fit. The way I play, 2S shows some extra values, but only enough to force to game after a "standard" 2/1 (ie not 2/1=GF). If partnership has long diamonds then I have a great hand and I intend to cooperate fully if he shows any signs of life.

Joining Fred and Rich in voicing that 2♠ shows extra were the following panelist.

Beto 2♠. Describes perfectly my hand in distribution and in high card values.

MikeH 2♠: have to show extras at some point; the best time is now


Roland 005-E: 2S. Good enough for a reverse because of J10 of diamonds. Had partner responded 2C, I would have settled for 2H. A reverse is a reverse to me even after a 2-o-1 response.

Luis 2s: Is this a real problem? I have hearts and spades and a good hand.

Ritong 2♠ simply because ♠ can be the right suit to play. If you guarantee to me that my partner does not 4♠, then 3♦ is my second choice.

NG "If 2S promises some extra, this hand is all-purpose. There are 6 losers,
primary controls, and the diamond J-10 are also golden cards, so 2S is an
automatic bid."

In the school with 2♠ either does not show extra values (flytoox) or neutral or “confused” if it shows extra value issue were the following panelist.

Flytoox 2S. If 2D is 100% game force, then 2S does not show extra. If 2D is not 100% game force, then 2S can convey more information.

Sergey 2S - wtp?

Justin2S. Not really sure what the problem is here, this bid seems so obvious. Even if it shows extras, I have it. If it just shows any hand with 4 spades, I have that too.

Fluffy2♠, when partner bids the likely 2NT (kind of relay at this position), I'll bid 3♠, which rates to be a 4522.

So while this problem wasn’t very exciting from one standpoint, I think the voting shows that, yes, 2♠ does show extra values. Roland thinks this hand is so close to not having extra values that he would not rebid 2♠ without the ♦Jack. Most of the others who agree it showed extra values (or in justin’s case IF it showed extra values) this hand had it. I think Fred’s definition of extra values needed is ideal to describe what is needed for this reverse after a 2/1 response. So that this hand, and Fred's guidence on what is extra values here, will be benifitial to many players. So I feel like my problem choice is justified by the responses probing just the issues I wanted whe choosing this question.

2S = 100
2H = 40
3D = 10 (0 votes but a mention)

[inquiry]

Jlall, on Sep 22 2005, 09:25 AM, said:

I do usually play 2S here shows extras, wasn't sure if that was true of BBO advanced. As I said, if it did show them, I had them One of my friends Kevin Bathurst thinks 1H then 2S should show ANY hand with 4 spades, not extras (whereas 3 level bids do show extras). The reasoning is if responder has 4315 or 4324 (yes he bids 2C with this shape for good reason) over a 2H rebid he will raise hearts and spades will be lost forever. This is interesting to me, but I do not generally play this way. I also like Fred's definition of extras.

The fact that a world champion (for those who don't know, Justin -- jlall, won the junior world championship last month), 1) wasn't sure if 2♠ in BBO advanced showed extras, 2) was sure that if it did, this hand HAD extras, and 3) liked the reply from another panelist, further justifies my choice of this problem.

These polls are more than finding the right the bid, it is also about clarifying the method. I hope the expert answers and justins comments convince the critics I hadn't lost my mind in choosing this one.

[pclayton]

I need to ask a question and I can't access BBO-ADV this moment.

Is a repeat of responder's suit a non-GF? As far as 2♠ showing extras, this comes from a Mike Lawrence 2/1 framework - and 'extras' are defined as about a K better than a minimum (as Fred suggests). Regardless of whether or not 3♦ by responder shows a sub minimum, 2♠ by opener 're-establishes' a GF.

If a repeat of responders suit is still a GF (like Hardy) then 2♠ can be made on a minny - like Bathurst says.

However, I'm guessing if you took a poll of the 100 top 2/1 players in the world, their prototypical minimum 2♠ call is about identical to the subject hand.

Maybe BBO-ADV 2/1 is mixing elements of Lawrence and Hardy?

[luke warm]

i think a 2/1 is a total game force, phil, even 1d/2c/2any/3c

[Fluffy]

The only alternative I could see was 2NT wich also shows extras

[mr1303]

2S for me, but I think this only just cuts it. Reverse my minors, or give me a singleton diamond and it would be a very close decision.

Give me

KQJx
AKxxx
JT
xx

and I would bid 2H only

[JLOGIC]

Jlall, on 2005-September-22, 07:25, said:

I do usually play 2S here shows extras, wasn't sure if that was true of BBO advanced. As I said, if it did show them, I had them One of my friends Kevin Bathurst thinks 1H then 2S should show ANY hand with 4 spades, not extras (whereas 3 level bids do show extras). The reasoning is if responder has 4315 or 4324 (yes he bids 2C with this shape for good reason) over a 2H rebid he will raise hearts and spades will be lost forever. This is interesting to me, but I do not generally play this way. I also like Fred's definition of extras.

Totally agree wtih kevin! he also bids it with 4333...4342... ah how bidding has changed. But anyways, thats 2C, you could make a case for 2S= extras over 2D and not over 2S. I think that sucks too, the best reason for 2S over 2D to not show extras is that the auction times out much better for you, and you will often get to make THREE bids to describe your shape. This is more important than only making 2 bids and clarifying strength but not getting the all important 3rd shape bid in.

Also, wouldn't you want to be able to bid 1H 2H 3S on KQx AJxxxx Jx xx?