[Chamaco]

Hi all.

I am trying to work out better the details of our Precision 1D opener.
I'll list below the status of the framework before dealing with the specific question.
Thanks to anyone will contribute with constructive suggestions!


- We play (12)13-15 NT, so our 1D opener guarantees 4+ diamonds and usually an unbalanced hand.

- We play that 1D-1M-1NT rebid is a catchall, either for canapè in the minors (4D5C hands) or for hands with 5D and 4H in the sequence 1D-1S-1NT.
EDIT: we also include 1=4=4=4 hands if responder bids spades.
Opener's 1NT rebid is NONFORCING

- We chose to use 1D-1M-2NT and 1D-1M-3D to discriminate distributional reverses with and without 3 card support in the major (distrib. reverses with 4 card support will just bid 1D-1M-3M).


a. 1D-1M-2NT = distributional reverse (5-5.5 losers) with exactly 3 card support in the major and a good diamond suit.
Example 1 of opener's hand: 1D-1H-2NT
x-QTx-AKJxxxx-Kx

b. 1D-1M-3D= distributional reverse (5-5.5 losers) with at most 2 card support in the major and a good diamond suit
Example 2 of opener's hand: 1D-1H-3D
x-xx-AKQxxxx-KTx

c. 1D-1M-3M= distributional reverse (5-5.5 losers) with 4+ card support in the major, usually good diamonds.
Example 3 of opener's hand: 1D-1H-3H
x-QTxx-AKJxxx-Kx




THE QUESTION

A. Let's assume that 1D-1M-3D is a 5 losers hand (usually good 1 suiter without major fit).
1. Now how does responder checkback for club stopper and or spades stoppers ?
2. How does he investigate for slam in his own major ?

B. If you did not agree on the meaning of 1D-1M-3D rebid (distributional reverse in misfit), please suggest *simple* alternatives to discriminate reverse hands with 4+ fit, 3 card fit , and no fit (if I wanted a complicated I'd use 1D-1M-2oM as "Multi-meaning distributional reverse) that
- still allow to checkback for NT stoppers in sequences where we do not have a 4-4 fit.
- do not force me to play in a moysian major fit if I do not want to
- 1D-1M-2C/2D must be nonforcing (e.g. I won't use 2C rebid as 1RF)

[NickToll]

I've read about a convention invented by Benito Garozzo for his 2/1, but it seems suited for Precision too. See if you like it.

Over 1♦-1M-3♦, responder rebids:
- 3♥: stopper in the other major, or a slam try in his first-bid suit;
- 3♠: stopper in clubs, probe for 3NT.

Over 3♥, opener assumes the "stopper" meaning and acts accordingly (3♠ can be a substitute for the 4th suit, asking for a half-stopper in clubs). If this is not the case, responder can show a slam try in his own suit with any bid other than 3NT, trying to describe a side feature naturally. An example:

1♦ - 1♠
3♦ - 3♥
3NT - ?

pass: stopper in hearts
4♣: good spades and a club control
4♦: good spades and a honor in diamonds
etc...

[mgoetze]

So you want to try for slam with partner having less than 3 card support... hm... and what do 1D-2M and 1D-3M mean?

In any case, I doubt 4C has a useful natural meaning after 1D-1M-3D, so you could use it as a kind of "checkback" trump inquiry.

Over 1D-1H-3D-4C:
4D shows two-card support
4H shows singleton/void

Over 1D-1S-3D-4C:
4D shows a doubleton honor
4H shows two small
4S shows singleton/void

[david_c]

I've been playing 1♦:1M,2NT and 1♦:1M,3♦ the other way round, so that 3♦ shows a 3-card fit and 2NT denies one. That seems to be much better in terms of the amount of space you have; the drawback is that after 1♦:1M,2NT you occasionally find that 3NT has been wrong-sided.

Also, what do you use 1♦:1♥,2♠ for? You might find that using this to show good diamonds and no fit is more useful than whatever you currently play.

The 1♦:1♠,1NT convention is interesting. What do you do with a 1444 hand? And is it possible to play in 2♣ when opener has 4♦5♣, or are you using it as a forcing bid?

[Chamaco]

david_c, on Sep 16 2005, 10:21 AM, said:

 
the drawback is that after 1♦:1M,2NT you occasionally find that 3NT has been wrong-sided.

Hi david :-)
I thought of inverting 2NT and 3D but I was worried exactly of this wrongsiding effect you mentioned.
My own feeling is that it is indeed a significant issue for hands that do not foresee a major suit contract.
Moreover, I felt that bidding 2NT with hands that might still explore slam in a major, would leave more room for investigation.

Quote

Also, what do you use 1♦:1♥,2♠ for? You might find that using this to show good diamonds and no fit is more useful than whatever you currently play.

Yes, this is possible.
One way is to use the cheapest reverse as multi-meaning, another is to use your suggestion.
For now, I try not to overburden my pard's memory, but I do acknowledge the merits of this bid.

Quote

The 1♦:1♠,1NT convention is interesting. What do you do with a 1444 hand?

Right now we include 1=4=4=4 hands in the "catchall".
We can then use a xyz scheme to checkback the distribution.

It is interesting to note that the 1NT catchall convention is very useful when using the Bourke relay (as we have adopted):
in fact, in the sequence 1D-1S-2D- now responder can use the 2H Bourke Relay without having to worry that pard will have 4 hearts (if he had, he wd have bid 1NT) and bid a spacewasting 3H.

Quote

And is it possible to play in 2♣ when opener has 4♦5♣, or are you using it as a forcing bid?

The way we play is that, after 1D-1M- 1NT we use xyz.

That means that 2C is always artificial, puppet to 2D, either a weak signoff or an invitational hand (if followed by a rebid).
As a consequence, partscores in clubs can be played only at the 3-level.

However, when responder would like to signoff in clubs, he has the option of passing out 1NT or to preference to diamond or to a major (usually finding a 43 or 52 fit).
Not optimal, I know, but not a disaster either.

[Chamaco]

Quote

So you want to try for slam with partner having less than 3 card support... hm... and what do 1D-2M and 1D-3M mean?

1D-2M = I just turned to the use of "weakish" jump, a 6+ card suit with about 9 losers, say about 4/5-8/9 hcp

1D-3M = splinter, slam try if no wasted values in opener's hand

[mgoetze]

Chamaco, on Sep 16 2005, 12:05 PM, said:

1D-2M = I just turned to the use of "weakish" jump, a 6+ card suit with about 9 losers, say about 4/5-8/9 hcp

I think this is a good idea.

Quote

1D-3M = splinter, slam try if no wasted values in opener's hand

I am not quite so convinced this is a good idea. I would be more inclined to use this bid to show a powerful one-suiter, setting trumps and asking partner to cuebid (perhaps with a 3NT cuebid showing unexpected but welcome trump support, or possibly a maximum as in the "serious 3NT" convention). This would help to take some difficult hand types out of your 1D-1M-3D sequence (and other sequences as well...).

YMMV.

[adhoc3]

I bid almost the same structure with Chamaco. (Shake Hands:)

To the understanding with my regular PD, since 3♦ consuming so many spaces to probe NT contract, it denies either supporting to PD's suit or stopper in other major. Thus, he must have club stopper. 1♦2♦3♦ shows much more interests in NT contract in comparing with 1♦3♦.

AQx Qx KQJxxxx x 1♦2♦3♦
x xx AKQxxxx Ax 1♦3♦