Zirconia 2[diamonds] bid and Gazzilli?
#1
Posted 2020-March-23, 16:54
Summary of the convention rebids
1 ♥ - 1 ♠
1NT = 4+ diamonds or exactly 2-5-3-3
2 ♦ = 3 card spade support
Other bids denying 3 card spade support
So, what about the point range of the 2 ♦? I think it makes sense for it to be unlimited (or at least very wide-ranging), since opener can make a next move if the responder tries to sign-off (similar to the unbalanced 1 ♦ opening with transfer rebids). But could it be a 3-5-(32) hand on the 18-19 count?
Also, one could add a Gazzilli feel to the 1NT rebid, making it something like 4+ diamonds or 2-5-3-3 or "any" 16+ hand. Now then, would that limit the 2 ♦ rebid to something like 11-15? Would you bid the Gazzilli with 16-17 or even 18+ points and 3 card spade support? Does it make sense to make the 2 ♦ rebid unbalanced if strong, otherwise go through Gazzilli (or the opposite)? Or would you rather make the 1NT rebid deny 3 card spade even if strong?
If you choose to play a Gazzilli style, what happens on this auction?
1 ♥ - 1 ♠
1NT - 2 ♥ (less than 8 points)
2 ♠ is this forcing? Or just a good ~17-18 but passable? This last question may just be a general Gazzilli doubt I have.
Lots of questions here...
Cheers
#2
Posted 2020-March-24, 05:00
It seems odd to me that you would choose to play 1NT rather than 2♣ as Gazzilli as one of the benefits of 2♣ is that weaker fairly balanced hands can bid 1NT and play there, while a forcing 1NT forces you too high, perhaps. Nevertheless, if you did do that then yes it does restrict the 2♦ range, and partner can pick a cheap contract which you pass. If 1NT is strong, then it will not deny 3 spades as you will rebid spades to show them.
On your final question, I play that a 2-level rebid from opener is not forcing, except that it does force if responder has only 4 spades. He has a choice of 2NT or 3♥. If you had 18/19+ and wanted to force, you should rebid at the 3-level.
#3
Posted 2020-March-24, 08:08
Periiz, on 2020-March-23, 16:54, said:
Article said:
The 2♦ rebid must cover the whole 1♥ range, then.
#4
Posted 2020-March-24, 10:38
When Gazzilli is in use, I prefer to let 2♦ be limited to around 11-16 with the stronger hand going through Gazzilli and rebidding 2♠. The advantage here is that you can stop in 2♠ with the strong hand opposite utter trash, which you cannot do after 1♥-1♠-2♦-2X because the strong hand needs to make another call.
For much the reason described above, I play 1♥-1♠-<Gazzilli>-2♥-2♠ as ~17-18 and NF. With stronger hands over 2♥ I'd bid three-something (or 2NT) and then pattern out.
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#5
Posted 2020-March-24, 23:38
#6
Posted 2020-March-25, 09:20
Zirconia falls under this category, just like new minor force or responses to 2♣ strong (both of which I’ve seen in this forum but arguably have no logical place).
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#7
Posted 2020-March-26, 02:01
FIRST MODIFICATION: 1NT includes minimum hands with 6+H
We do not include "Gazzilli hands" into the 1NT rebid, since 1H is limited. We do however include another hand type in addition to the original convention:
a) 2-5-3-3, 11--13(14).
b) 4+ diamonds
c) 6+ hearts, minimum strength (about 10--13).
The third hand type means that 1H-1S; 2H shows extras (14--16). Rebidding 3H shows a seven card suit. It might seem more natural to include the 14--16 range in 1NT, but we feel that continuations get better this way. After 1H-1S; 1NT-2H (preference like in the original convention) opener will pass even with 6+H.
After 1H-1S; 1NT-2C; (invitational+) opener will bid 2D (3+) or 2H with minimum. Other bids shows a max with 4+D and establishes a game force.
SECOND MODIFICATION: Shortness ask after 3 card spade fit
Another gadget is after 1H-1S; 2D. Here we play 2NT as non-forcing invitational, while 3C is an artificial game force with 5+S. The 3C bid primarily asks shortness:
3D = No shortness (that they want to show).
3H = Singleton club.
3S = Singleton diamond.
3NT = Good 6+H. No shortness that they want to show.
4m = Void.
THIRD MODIFICATION: Using responder's 2S as a "relay"
In three auctions responder's 2S is used as an "artificial" (in the sense that it doesn't promise extra length in spades) GF bid.
1H-1S; 1NT-2C; 2D-2S; (Opener has shown a minimum with 2-5-3-3 or 4+D)
2NT = 2-5-3-3
3C = 1-5-4-3
3D = 5-5
3H = 6-4
3S = 2-5-4-2, no club stopper.
3NT = 2-5-4-2 with club stopper.
1H-1S; 1NT-2C; 2H-2S; (Opener has shown a minimum with 6+H)
2NT = No shortness we want to show.
3m = 6-4 (after 1H-1S opener can choose to show the minor suit first, or to show the six card suit)
3H = Any singleton. 3S asks and opener responds in steps.
3S = Void.
4m = Void.
1H-1S; 2C-2D; 2H-2S; (Opener has shown a minimum with 4+C, and the 2D bid was INV+)
2NT = Diamond stopper.
3C = 1-5-3-4 without diamond stopper. We rebid 3C after 1H-1S; 2C-2D; with a minimum and 5-5 (since extras and 5-5 rebid 3C after 1H-1S).
3D = 0-5-4-4
3H = 6-4
3S = 2-5-2-4, no diamond stopper.
#8
Posted 2020-March-26, 03:49
Kungsgeten, on 2020-March-26, 02:01, said:
I think you can afford to use 2♥ over 1♥-1♠; 2♦ as an INV+ relay ("range ask"), assuming 2♠ on a 4-3 fit after
1♥-1♠
2♦-2♠
P
is not much worse on average than 2♥ on a 5-2 fit after
1♥-1♠
2♦-2♥
P.
#9
Posted 2020-March-26, 09:05
nullve, on 2020-March-26, 03:49, said:
1♥-1♠
2♦-2♠
P
is not much worse on average than 2♥ on a 5-2 fit after
1♥-1♠
2♦-2♥
P.
My partner much prefers 5-2 fits to 4-3 fits. I generally think 5-2 fits do better, but that might just be a feeling. Here responder have a choice, but there could absolutely be gains playing 2♥ as artificial. One thing to remember though is that opener might have 6 hearts and 3 spades, so if its a part-score we might play in a 4-3 instead of a 6-2.
#10
Posted 2020-April-22, 05:40
#12
Posted 2020-April-25, 07:44
Zelandakh, on 2020-April-22, 05:40, said:
1♥-1♠-2♦ is not a very good sequence for natural bidding. There are several possible problems:
1. The fourth suit by responder is 3♣, making it awkward to show both invitational and forcing diamond raises, notrump bids, heart raises, spade rebids, etc.
2. If opener has extras, he risks being passed in 2♦ when responder has slightly less than invitational values (and game is good).
3. If opener has extras, we must play at 2NT or above after responder's 2♥ correction, even if responder's hand is very poor.
Playing transfer rebids really only helps with the second of these problems. Zirconia helps with them all:
1. After 1♥-1♠-1NT! (diamonds), the fourth suit is available at 2♣. This means you can play sequences like:
1♥ - 1♠ - 1NT! - 2NT/3♦/3♥/3♠ all natural and game forcing
1♥ - 1♠ - 1NT! - 2♣! - 2♦ - 2♠/2NT/3♦/3♥ all natural and invitational
2. Since opener's second bid is forcing, there is no risk of being passed out.
3. In fact, opener can find out whether responder has enough for game opposite extras and still play at the two-level if he doesn't:
1♥ - 1♠ - 1NT! - 2♦/2♥/2♠ (not enough for game opposite extras)... and opener can pass (or correct 2♦ to 2♥ if not holding 4+♦, or force game if strong enough)
1♥ - 1♠ - 1NT! - 2♣... responder shows enough for game opposite extras and opener has all of 2♥+ available to describe his hand in a game forcing sequence
In addition Zirconia lets you distinguish three vs. four card spade raises (via 1♥-1♠-2♦ three-card raise).
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit