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norths bid 2nd round south bid

#1 User is offline   maris oren 

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Posted 2020-April-22, 07:29

what is south's bid?

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#2 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2020-April-22, 09:04

2♣ always. Pass or 1NT don't even enter the equation.
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#3 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-April-22, 11:29

 FelicityR, on 2020-April-22, 09:04, said:

2♣ always. Pass or 1NT don't even enter the equation.


For us, x shows 4 clubs, 2♣ shows 5 so we double

If playing a weak NT I might have opened one
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#4 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2020-April-22, 12:17

2♣ for me.
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#5 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-April-22, 13:24

I'm with CY, double shows this hand.
Although some others here play that it shows a hand that would have bid 2NT with a stop in opponent's suit.
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#6 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2020-April-22, 14:08

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-22, 11:29, said:

For us, x shows 4 clubs, 2♣ shows 5 so we double

If playing a weak NT I might have opened one

In the US and some other parts of the world, it is standard tournament bridge that double shows 3 card heart support.
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#7 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2020-April-22, 14:30

I think that pass should enter the equation, too, especially if next round's heart bid denies 3 (from failure to support double now).

'minimum, balanced, no spade stopper' - okay, I'm 5=4 in the minors, but is that really worth mentioning with this random 13-count that actually would hope to play in hearts?

And absolutely, playing a K/S style weak NT, this is a weak NT. Partner's going to expect more than this for 1♦.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-April-22, 14:39

 johnu, on 2020-April-22, 14:08, said:

In the US and some other parts of the world, it is standard tournament bridge that double shows 3 card heart support.


Yup, that's why I said FOR US, some people play that here, but I think it's less common in weak NT land
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#9 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2020-April-23, 03:16

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-22, 14:39, said:

Yup, that's why I said FOR US, some people play that here, but I think it's less common in weak NT land


I am no fan of Support Doubles in the context of a weak NT system. But that is because we use Double to show the strong NT type hand. Distinguishing four and five-card club holdings is far less important in my opinion.
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#10 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-April-23, 03:55

 Tramticket, on 2020-April-23, 03:16, said:

I am no fan of Support Doubles in the context of a weak NT system. But that is because we use Double to show the strong NT type hand. Distinguishing four and five-card club holdings is far less important in my opinion.


With my regular partner, we don't actually play that often, so saving effort in remembering system via blanket agreements is useful, we just play this for all the "3 suits bid" auctions and it's much more valuable where you would have to bid the suit at the 3 level. The knowledge when partner has 3 of them that you have 5 is important.
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#11 User is offline   bluenikki 

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Posted 2020-April-23, 13:37

 maris oren, on 2020-April-22, 07:29, said:

what is south's bid?



balanced minimum opener passes (or raises) at 2nd turn unless forced.

Do you believe this is unbalanced?
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#12 User is offline   bluenikki 

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Posted 2020-April-23, 13:45

 mycroft, on 2020-April-22, 14:30, said:

I think that pass should enter the equation, too, especially if next round's heart bid denies 3 (from failure to support double now).

'minimum, balanced, no spade stopper' - okay, I'm 5=4 in the minors, but is that really worth mentioning with this random 13-count that actually would hope to play in hearts?

And absolutely, playing a K/S style weak NT, this is a weak NT. Partner's going to expect more than this for 1♦.


this is 11.8 CCCC count. 11.6 without the 9s. Kaplan's point count.

So it is too weak for a K-S opening.

CCCC hates two honors doubleton: the ♥ J only counted .45 .
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#13 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2020-April-23, 13:47

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-22, 14:39, said:

Yup, that's why I said FOR US, some people play that here, but I think it's less common in weak NT land

Nice attempt at humor. Better luck next time :rolleyes:
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#14 User is offline   ibm386 

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Posted 2020-April-23, 14:02

i prefer double = i'not 11 po, may be we play 3nt and
after 2h i say pass.
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#15 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-April-23, 15:07

 johnu, on 2020-April-23, 13:47, said:

Nice attempt at humor. Better luck next time :rolleyes:


Err - there was no humour in this, support doubles are played by VERY few pairs playing a weak NT in the UK, the pairs that play them here tend to be playing 14-16/15-17.
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#16 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2020-April-23, 18:16

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-23, 15:07, said:

Err - there was no humour in this, support doubles are played by VERY few pairs playing a weak NT in the UK, the pairs that play them here tend to be playing 14-16/15-17.

I would throw you a lifesaver but I'm out of them. Look in the mail for an Altoid.
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#17 User is offline   aawk 

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Posted 2020-April-23, 21:17

If it is for IMP play I would pass. If it is for MP play 2♣ is a alternative.

dbl would show 3 card h (support dbl)
1nt minimum with good ♠ stopper
2♣ 5-5 non forcing
2♦ 6+ card non forcing
2♥ 4 card fit non forcing
2♠ game forcing
2nt invite 16-17 good ♠ stopper
3♣ 5-5 game forcing
3♦ 6+ card game forcing (or if agreed barrage 7+ card)
3♥ invite 4 card
3♠/4♣ splinter (or if agreed a cue) 4+ card ♥
3nt to play 18+ good ♠ stopper
4♦ cue 4+ card ♥
4♥ to play
4♠/5♣ exclusion BLW 4+ card ♥
4nt RKC 4+ card ♥
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#18 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-April-24, 03:26

 johnu, on 2020-April-23, 18:16, said:

I would throw you a lifesaver but I'm out of them. Look in the mail for an Altoid.


Please stop patronising somebody who actually knows what's played in his own part of the world.

I actually had to look up what an Altoid was, they're pretty much unknown here despite being invented here.
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#19 User is offline   miamijd 

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Posted 2020-April-24, 11:27

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-24, 03:26, said:

Please stop patronising somebody who actually knows what's played in his own part of the world.

I actually had to look up what an Altoid was, they're pretty much unknown here despite being invented here.


I think (I hope) he was referring to your making an accidental pun. You said FOR US. But the first time I read that, I thought you meant "For the USA."

Keep well.

Mike
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#20 User is offline   miamijd 

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Posted 2020-April-24, 11:34

 bluenikki, on 2020-April-23, 13:37, said:

balanced minimum opener passes (or raises) at 2nd turn unless forced.

Do you believe this is unbalanced?


Of course it is. You have 9 cards in the minors, and you have to show partner that now, so that he can make an intelligent decision at his next turn. If you pass, West is likely to raise to 2S. Now what is your partner supposed to do with:

xxx
Qxxxx
KQx
xx

or

xxx
Axxx
xx
Kxxx

He is stuck guessing, and if I'm your partner, I'm probably just going to pass unless I'm NV at MPs, and maybe even then. You don't want me to pass; you want me to bid 3m. It might make; we might push them to 3S; and even if we go set, at MPs, we'll likely go set less than -110. You have to show your minor holdings immediately, so that partner has an easy 3D on hand 1 or 3c on hand 2.

Cheers,
mike
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