Help
https://www.bridgeba...QH9C4S8SJHJD4C5
Luckily I only encounter GIB as a partner when some human drops out and thus have relatively little interest in how it bids or plays.
In this case my bidding was rudimental (30s tournament and justifiable fears) but I still don't think it merited a jump to 6♠ on that 5 hcp 5-card quacky hand.
FWIW, all three who played 3NT did make it all the same, for a top.
More worthy of note is that GIB went down 6♠-5 where ♠ makes 9 tricks double dummy and 2 of 3 humans made 10.
Page 1 of 1
Yet another dubious and unilateral slam try
#1
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,853
- Joined: 2014-February-18
- Gender:Male
- Location:Italy
Posted 2019-May-16, 13:29
#2
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,760
- Joined: 2006-January-30
Posted 2019-May-16, 14:16
In GIB world X and then jump to 3N is like a 29 count, which on this auction isn't that unreasonble... give S a bare minimum 2♦ and N a yarb.
Even opposite a human bidder your 3N bid is about 4 kings light.
I would consider it a bug if GIB _didn't_ slam here. It has 5 more HCP and 2 more spades than promised.
Even opposite a human bidder your 3N bid is about 4 kings light.
I would consider it a bug if GIB _didn't_ slam here. It has 5 more HCP and 2 more spades than promised.
#3
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,009
- Joined: 2014-March-15
- Gender:Male
Posted 2019-May-16, 14:26
GIB's bidding is also rudimental; since 2S shows a bad hand potentially with 0 points, it defines your 3NT bid as 25-32 points. Hard to blame it for trying to slam after that.
#4
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,853
- Joined: 2014-February-18
- Gender:Male
- Location:Italy
Posted 2019-May-16, 14:37
TylerE, on 2019-May-16, 14:16, said:
In GIB world X and then jump to 3N is like a 29 count, which on this auction isn't that unreasonble... give S a bare minimum 2♦ and N a yarb.
Even opposite a human bidder your 3N bid is about 4 kings light.
I would consider it a bug if GIB _didn't_ slam here. It has 5 more HCP and 2 more spades than promised.
Even opposite a human bidder your 3N bid is about 4 kings light.
I would consider it a bug if GIB _didn't_ slam here. It has 5 more HCP and 2 more spades than promised.
I agree 3NT is clumsy, opposite a human partner I would not have bid that way.
What would 2NT or 3♣ mean to GIB here?
#5
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,760
- Joined: 2006-January-30
Posted 2019-May-16, 14:50
A direct 2N would be like 17-20, so X and 2NT something like 21-24. A direct 3♣ is probably the pragmatic bid, showing (obviously) a suit and maybe 14-18 or so. X and 3♣ would be stronger, in theory, but those sort of auctions tend not to work well with GIB as it doesn't understand the strong unbalanced X.... as soon as you X it will aLways and forever assume you have support for all unbids.
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,853
- Joined: 2014-February-18
- Gender:Male
- Location:Italy
Posted 2019-May-16, 14:57
TylerE, on 2019-May-16, 14:50, said:
A direct 2N would be like 17-20, so X and 2NT something like 21-24. A direct 3♣ is probably the pragmatic bid, showing (obviously) a suit and maybe 14-18 or so. X and 3♣ would be stronger, in theory, but those sort of auctions tend not to work well with GIB as it doesn't understand the strong unbalanced X.... as soon as you X it will aLways and forever assume you have support for all unbids.
Thanks, but I fear pass (justified) of a direct 3♣.
What would GIB bid over a direct 2NT? I feared pass here too.
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 5,025
- Joined: 2008-September-10
- Gender:Male
Posted 2019-May-16, 15:01
TylerE, on 2019-May-16, 14:16, said:
In GIB world X and then jump to 3N is like a 29 count, which on this auction isn't that unreasonble
smerriman, on 2019-May-16, 14:26, said:
GIB's bidding is also rudimental; since 2S shows a bad hand potentially with 0 points, it defines your 3NT bid as 25-32 points.
Any HCP definition for 3NT above 25-26 HCP is just crazy from a bridge odds point of view. The odds of a 25-26 point hand are already minuscule. The odds of 27 HCP or more go down by more than 50% for each additional point.
e.g.
Odds of 26 HCP hand is .012%
Odds of 28 HCP hand is .0019%
Even if GIB plays 3NT as 25-32 HCP, the hand will be 25-26 a very large majority of the time. So why does GIB assume 3NT is a maximum when there is no fit? Or maybe GIB is adding distribution points??? Again, how can you assign distribution points when you have no fit? Maybe hearts is the correct contract, or 6NT.
No matter how you look at it, GIB's bidding needs improvement.
#8
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,760
- Joined: 2006-January-30
Posted 2019-May-16, 19:10
johnu, on 2019-May-16, 15:01, said:
No matter how you look at it, GIB's bidding needs improvement.
No matter hwo you look at it, there are auctions that could be worked on that are about 10,000 times more likely to occur than this one.
#9
- 5-level belongs to me
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,128
- Joined: 2004-August-30
- Gender:Male
- Location:Glasgow Scotland
- Interests:Poems Computers
#10
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 5,025
- Joined: 2008-September-10
- Gender:Male
Posted 2019-May-16, 20:23
TylerE, on 2019-May-16, 19:10, said:
No matter hwo you look at it, there are auctions that could be worked on that are about 10,000 times more likely to occur than this one.
You mean things like simple responses to takeout doubles, and making a simple preference?
#11
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,366
- Joined: 2013-August-03
- Gender:Female
- Location:Variable private
- Interests:Cricket,Photography,Paediatrics and Community Medicine.
Posted 2019-May-17, 02:21
Sir,the 2S bid by Robot was a FORCED BID,3NT is a far too ambitious bid.Where are the tricks to come from?such a dilapidated club suit?
#12
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,853
- Joined: 2014-February-18
- Gender:Male
- Location:Italy
Posted 2019-May-17, 03:18
msjennifer, on 2019-May-17, 02:21, said:
Sir,the 2S bid by Robot was a FORCED BID,3NT is a far too ambitious bid.Where are the tricks to come from?such a dilapidated club suit?
My rapid assessment was that 3NT does have some chances, based on the auction: diamonds may well be 6-2 and then partner showing spades looks quite likely to have 4333. In any case this is a short timed 6 boarder played for fun on a tablet, not the Bermuda Bowl, and I have no fear of offending rbbot partner. With any luck I will get to play the 3nt and it might be interesting.
#13
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,853
- Joined: 2014-February-18
- Gender:Male
- Location:Italy
Posted 2019-May-17, 07:05
pescetom, on 2019-May-16, 13:29, said:
More worthy of note is that GIB went down 6♠-5 where ♠ makes 9 tricks double dummy and 2 of 3 humans made 10.
Nobody has comments on this?
I expected GIB to do quite well here.
Has something changed in the minimum level of play, or were his simulations thrown by the offshape 2♦ opening?
#14
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,853
- Joined: 2014-February-18
- Gender:Male
- Location:Italy
Posted 2019-May-17, 07:27
nige1, on 2019-May-16, 20:00, said:
If you play regularly with GIB, bitter experience teaches you to take TylerE's advice and study its explanations, assiduously.
Thanks. Unfortunately I was playing on a tablet where studying an explanation requires some nerve because if you just lift your finger after reading then it becomes a bid. I guess I just have to steel myself and swipe.
#15
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,095
- Joined: 2003-May-14
Posted 2019-May-17, 09:23
Find setting "confirm bids" under account settings.
Requiring 25+ for 3nt is too much. Overcall 2nt is up to maybe 18. Double then 2nt should be about 19-21, therefore 3nt should be some 22-26 or so.
Requiring 25+ for 3nt is too much. Overcall 2nt is up to maybe 18. Double then 2nt should be about 19-21, therefore 3nt should be some 22-26 or so.
#16
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,760
- Joined: 2006-January-30
Posted 2019-May-17, 11:34
Stephen Tu, on 2019-May-17, 09:23, said:
Requiring 25+ for 3nt is too much. Overcall 2nt is up to maybe 18. Double then 2nt should be about 19-21, therefore 3nt should be some 22-26 or so.
Yes, and thus X *and then* 3N is stronger than even that.
#17
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,095
- Joined: 2003-May-14
Posted 2019-May-17, 16:44
TylerE, on 2019-May-17, 11:34, said:
Yes, and thus X *and then* 3N is stronger than even that.
No, I meant dbl then 3nt should be the ~22-26 ish range.
Direct jump to 3nt over 2 level preempt, without a dbl, is normally not part of any sort of NT strength ladder; rather it shows less flexibility and strongly wanting to play 3nt vs 4 of a major. It is usually running suit + stoppers, occasionally a strongish unbalanced hand with maybe stiff (honor?) in an unbid major, thinking 3nt likely has play opposite many hands that would pass a simple overcall but strongly not wanting partner to bid 4M with some random 5/6cd major and values especially if opponents raise the preempt.
If you are wanting to utilize it as a ladder bid so you can show 27+ balanced hands, you get to use it a couple times a lifetime and have no good call when you have 8-9 tricks in a minor which will come up a lot more often.
Page 1 of 1
pescetoom writes 'Luckily I only encounter GIB as a partner when some human drops out and thus have relatively little interest in how it bids or plays.In this case my bidding was rudimental (30s tournament and justifiable fears) but I still don't think it merited a jump to 6♠ on that 5 hcp 5-card quacky hand. FWIW, all three who played 3NT did make it all the same, for a top. More worthy of note is that GIB went down 6♠-5 where ♠ makes 9 tricks double dummy and 2 of 3 humans made 10.'
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you play regularly with GIB, bitter experience teaches you to take TylerE's advice and study its explanations, assiduously. Sometimes it thinks that any sensible action by you shows a mountain and you do best to bite your tongue and go quietly.