billw55, on 2015-January-07, 15:06, said:
Yes mikeh, I have heard of a couple of scandals. What I meant was, what do they do with most of their money? 20 million euros is surely a drop in their well.
And if the entire structure really is for nothing more than enriching the cardinals? Well, perhaps Francis is working on that. His publicity at least, gives the impression of greater sincerity regarding wealth and poverty than some of his predecessors. Will it ultimately change anything? Probably not. But we can hope.
Maintaining the Vatican is undoubtedly expensive, including, as it does, not only many (old) buildings, but roads, utilities, public spaces, a paramilitary Swiss Guard, and many bureaucrats. I expect, but do not know, that funding is doled out to various off-site organizations, and maybe dioceses. Although, on that point, my understanding is that those US dioceses that made settlements in child abuse cases had to come up with their own money, and the palaces built by some bishops and archbishops have been funded by their parishoners....google the bishop of bling for maybe the most notorious case.
I suspect there is an element of being a miser in the habits, and I wouldn't blame any organization for being paranoid about losing its money. Even if the church were what most of its followers seem to think it is, a force for good, it wouldn't be in keeping with that mission to spend all of its money and not lay aside funds for the future.
Btw, I agree that 20MM euros is probably a drop in the bucket, but do you for a moment think that this was an isolated transaction? That the police happened to catch the guy the first and only time he tried it? Once a week would be 1 billion a year, as one example, and this was just a single individual, as far as being a bank employee/official was concerned.
If they are laundering mob money, what are they doing with their own? We have no idea.
By the way, many years ago I learned of a situation in which a priest had died. Now, priests aren't sworn to poverty, but they don't get huge salaries either. So it was surprising to learn of the Italian villa he owned, in addition to the properties he owned in Canada, and the substantial net worth of the estate. I don't doubt that most priests and lesser clergy are far from wealthy, but I'd really be interested in learning the net worth of the typical bishop or higher, especially in NA or Western Europe, or South America. And where they have their money stashed.
As for the new pope, the adulation heaped on him by western media seems a bit over the top. Yes, he preaches more poverty for individual leaders within the church, tho it remains to be seen how much that catches on. But on matters of doctrine, he is as conservative as they come. He believes, for example, in exorcism...which means he believes, literally, that there are demons amongst us that can possess the mind and body of humans, and can be cast out by proper ritual. I mean...really? Yes...unfortunately, really.
And has he done anything to address the role of gays in the church, or the rights of women to be wholly (not holy) equal to men? He's made some vague comments about more tolerance, but tolerance is not acceptance...it is a softer discrimination than an outright condemnation, but it isn't acceptance. Btw, I am not good at embedding links, but on the exorcism issue, google Pope Francis and exorcism and it will take you right to the evidence: I am not making this stuff up
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari