vg|BBO1-2017EOC,O-SW3_10,I,21,30,NETHERLANDS RED,0,FRANCE OPEN SENIOR,0| rs|2HW+1,2HW+1,3NW-1,3NW-1,2DS+2,3NN-1,3NW+3,3NW+3,2SN-1,2SN=,3NW-1,3CW=,2HW-3,3SN=,4SE=,2SE+2,5CNx-2,5CNx-1,1NE-2,3CE-2| pn|VERHEES,COMBESCURE,VAN PROOIJ,ROMBAUT,DECHELETTE,NAB,IONTZEFF,DRIJVER|pg|| qx|o21|st||md|3SA96H642D74C76543,SJ3HAQT98DA3CJT82,SQT7HK5DKQ652CAQ9,SK8542HJ73DJT98CK|sv|n|nt|vugrapho1: Welcome back!|pg|| mb|1N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|2H|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|dK|nt|ahollan1: 1N = 14-16|pg|| pc|d8|pc|d4|pc|dA|pg|| pc|c2|pc|cA|pc|cK|pc|c5|pg|| pc|sT|nt|ahollan1: verhees-van prooijen CC from 2016 http://info.ecatsbridge.com/Systems/2016eblchampionscup/netherlands-bctonstein/ccvanprooijen-verhees.pdf|pg|| nt|ahollan1: i'm told that pop-up still links to when they played ultimate canape but now a version of tarzan precision [modified from what wijs-muller play]|pg|| pc|s2|pc|sA|pc|s3|pg|| pc|h4|pc|hA|pc|h5|pc|h3|pg|| pc|d3|pc|dQ|pc|d9|pc|d7|pg|| nt|ahollan1: anyone else think that it is good to be back to format where overtricks are mostly unimportant?|pg|| pc|c9|pc|h7|pc|c3|pc|cJ|pg|| pc|dT|pc|h6|pc|h8|pc|d2|pg|| pc|cT|pc|cQ|pc|hJ|pc|c4|pg|| pc|sK|pc|s6|pc|sJ|pc|s7|pg|| pc|s4|pc|s9|pc|h9|pc|sQ|pg|| pc|hT|pc|hK|pc|s5|pc|h2|pg|| mc|9|pg|| qx|c21|st||md|3SA96H642D74C76543,SJ3HAQT98DA3CJT82,SQT7HK5DKQ652CAQ9,SK8542HJ73DJT98CK|sv|n|mb|1N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|2H|an| |mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|dK|pc|d8|pc|d7|pc|dA|pg|| pc|c2|pc|cA|pc|cK|pc|c3|pg|| pc|dQ|pc|d9|pc|d4|pc|d3|pg|| pc|s7|pc|s2|pc|sA|pc|s3|pg|| pc|h2|pc|hT|pc|hK|pc|h3|pg|| pc|h5|pc|h7|pc|h4|pc|h8|pg|| pc|sJ|pc|sQ|pc|sK|pc|s6|pg|| pc|s4|pc|s9|pc|hA|pc|sT|pg|| mc|9|pg|| qx|o22|st||md|4SQJ62HT9DT753CAKJ,SAKHKJ84DAKQJCT84,ST3HA632D942C7652,S98754HQ75D86CQ93|sv|e|nt|vugrapho1: Results: http://db.eurobridge.org/repository/competitions/17montecatini/microsite/RunningScores/Asp/RoundTeamsConditStatClassicMod.asp?qtournid=1401&qshowflag=1|pg|| mb|p|mb|1D!|mb|d|nt|ahollan1: 1@D = 11-15, 2+@D|pg|| mb|p|mb|1S|mb|p|mb|2N|mb|p|mb|3N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|c6|pc|c3|pc|cJ|nt|ahollan1: both of the tarzan pairs had been playing mini-nt in some situations|pg|| pc|c8|pg|| pc|cA|pc|c4|pc|c5|pc|c9|pg|| pc|cK|pc|cT|pc|c2|pc|cQ|pg|| nt|ahollan1: i think our pair might still be doing that 3rd seat favorable -- but possible that they've completely abandoned mini|pg|| pc|h9|pc|h4|pc|hA|pc|h5|pg|| pc|c7|pc|s4|pc|d3|pc|h8|pg|| mc|8|pg|| qx|c22|st||md|4SQJ62HT9DT753CAKJ,SAKHKJ84DAKQJCT84,ST3HA632D942C7652,S98754HQ75D86CQ93|sv|e|mb|p|mb|p|mb|2N|mb|p|mb|3H|mb|p|mb|3S|mb|p|mb|3N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|c7|pc|c3|pc|cJ|pc|c8|pg|| pc|cA|pc|c4|pc|c2|pc|c9|pg|| pc|cK|pc|cT|pc|c6|pc|cQ|pg|| pc|d3|pc|dK|pc|d2|pc|d6|pg|| pc|hK|pc|hA|pc|h5|pc|h9|pg|| mc|8|pg|| qx|o23|st||md|1SAT4HA32DA87643C8,S73HKJT85DQ9CKT73,SQ986HQ94DKJTCQ42,SKJ52H76D52CAJ965|sv|b|mb|1D!|mb|1H|nt|ahollan1: another nebulous 1@D|pg|| mb|d|nt|ahollan1: DBL = 4/5@S|pg|| mb|r|mb|1S|an|3c !s|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: rosenkranz rdbl showing an honour has mostly been replaced by rdbl = values with exactly 2-fit for partner's overcall|pg|| mb|p|mb|1N|nt|ahollan1: that said, i think that verhees-van prooijen still have a way to differentiate raise with honour vs raise without|pg|| mb|2D|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: verhees 1@S = 3-fit with 4 he would bid 2@S|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: sidebar dr. george rosenkranz turned 100 in august 2016|pg|| pc|s7|pc|s8|pc|sJ|pc|sA|pg|| pc|d3|pc|d9|pc|dK|pc|d2|pg|| pc|dT|pc|d5|pc|dA|pc|dQ|pg|| pc|sT|nt|Walddk2: http://db.eurobridge.org/repository/competitions/17montecatini/microsite/RunningScores/Asp/RoundTeamsConditStatClassicMod.asp?qtournid=1401&qshowflag=1|pg|| mc|10|pg|| qx|c23|st||md|1SAT4HA32DA87643C8,S73HKJT85DQ9CKT73,SQ986HQ94DKJTCQ42,SKJ52H76D52CAJ965|sv|b|mb|1D|mb|1H|mb|1S|mb|p|mb|2D|mb|p|mb|3D|mb|p|mb|3S|mb|p|mb|3N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|c6|pc|c8|pc|cK|pc|c2|pg|| pc|cT|pc|cQ|pc|cA|pc|s4|pg|| pc|cJ|pc|h2|pc|c7|pc|c4|pg|| pc|c9|pc|sT|pc|c3|pc|s6|pg|| pc|c5|pc|h3|pc|s7|pc|s8|pg|| pc|h7|pc|hA|pc|h8|pc|h4|pg|| pc|dA|pc|d9|pc|dT|pc|d2|pg|| pc|d3|pc|dQ|pc|dK|pc|d5|pg|| mc|8|pg|| qx|o24|st||md|2S763HA98D6CAQT654,SQJT42HQJTDK42CK3,S985HK7642DJT8CJ9,SAKH53DAQ9753C872|sv|o|mb|1S|mb|p|mb|2D|mb|3C|mb|p|mb|p|mb|d|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: groetheim did not bid 3@C so versace-lauria had free run to 3N|pg|| mb|3D|mb|p|mb|3S|mb|p|mb|3N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|cJ|nt|ahollan1: i like 3@C a) it makes EW work harder to find 3N b) helps partner on opening lead|pg|| pc|c2|pc|cQ|pc|cK|pg|| pc|s2|pc|s5|pc|sA|pc|s7|pg|| pc|sK|pc|s3|pc|s4|pc|s8|pg|| pc|d3|pc|d6|pc|dK|pc|d8|pg|| mc|12|nt|ahollan1: in a matchpoint event would NS cash their 3 tricks??|pg|| pg|| qx|c24|st||md|2S763HA98D6CAQT654,SQJT42HQJTDK42CK3,S985HK7642DJT8CJ9,SAKH53DAQ9753C872|sv|o|mb|1N|an| |mb|p|mb|3N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|h4|pc|h3|pc|hA|pc|hT|pg|| pc|h9|pc|hQ|pc|h2|pc|h5|pg|| pc|d2|pc|d8|pc|dA|pc|d6|pg|| mc|12|pg|| qx|o25|st||md|3SKH7654DAQ96CQJ95,SA854HAT93DT874C3,SJT9632HK2DJ5CK74,SQ7HQJ8DK32CAT862|sv|e|mb|p|mb|1C|mb|p|mb|1H|mb|2S|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: i would have bet that van prooijen opens 2@S rather than pass|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|pc|hQ|pc|h4|pc|hA|pc|h2|pg|| pc|c3|pc|c7|pc|cA|pc|c5|pg|| pc|c6|pc|c9|pc|s4|pc|cK|pg|| pc|h3|pc|hK|pc|h8|pc|h5|pg|| pc|s2|pc|s7|pc|sK|pc|sA|pg|| pc|h9|nt|ahollan1: iontzeff also started pass then 2@S |pg|| pc|s3|pc|hJ|pc|h6|pg|| pc|s9|pc|sQ|pc|d6|pc|s5|pg|| nt|ahollan1: is there a way for defense to NOT defeat 2@S at our table??|pg|| mc|7|pg|| qx|c25|st||md|3SKH7654DAQ96CQJ95,SA854HAT93DT874C3,SJT9632HK2DJ5CK74,SQ7HQJ8DK32CAT862|sv|e|mb|p|mb|1C|an| |mb|p|mb|1D!|mb|2S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|hQ|pc|h4|pc|hA|pc|h2|pg|| pc|h3|pc|hK|pc|h8|pc|h5|pg|| pc|s2|pc|s7|pc|sK|pc|s4|pg|| pc|h6|pc|h9|pc|s3|pc|hJ|pg|| pc|sJ|pc|sQ|pc|d6|pc|s5|pg|| pc|d3|pc|d9|pc|dT|pc|dJ|pg|| pc|sT|pc|d2|pc|c5|pc|sA|pg|| pc|c3|pc|c4|pc|cA|pc|c9|pg|| pc|c2|pc|cJ|pc|s8|pc|c7|pg|| mc|8|pg|| qx|o26|st||md|4SJ842H854DQ54CQJ5,SAKQ9HT97DT7CA942,S63HQJ63DAK863C83,ST75HAK2DJ92CKT76|sv|b|mb|p|mb|p|mb|1C|mb|1D|mb|1S|an|no M|mb|p|mb|1N|mb|p|mb|2N|mb|p|mb|3N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|d6|pc|d2|nt|ahollan1: EW play transfers by responder in competition so 1@S = either pure transfer to NT or maybe they play it is NT or @C|pg|| nt|ritong: declarer might have @d Kx|pg|| nt|ritong: and north an entry|pg|| nt|ahollan1: Henri!!|pg|| nt|ritong: hey al|pg|| nt|ahollan1: do you know how EW play 1N by east in competition?|pg|| nt|ritong: not yet|pg|| nt|ahollan1: is he too weak or worried about no @S stop??|pg|| pc|dQ|pc|d7|pg|| pc|d5|pc|dT|pc|dK|pc|d9|pg|| nt|ritong: i would guess 1@s is the equivalent of a natural 1NT|pg|| pc|dA|pc|dJ|pc|d4|pc|c2|pg|| pc|d3|pc|c6|pc|h4|pc|c4|pg|| pc|d8|nt|ahollan1: spectators asking why van prooijen did NOT bid Raptor 1N to show 4M & 5+@D -- they do not use that when opponent opens in 3rd seat|pg|| pc|s5|pc|s2|pc|h7|pg|| pc|c3|pc|c7|pc|cJ|pc|cA|pg|| pc|sA|pc|s3|pc|s7|pc|s4|pg|| pc|sK|pc|s6|pc|sT|pc|s8|pg|| mc|8|pg|| qx|c26|st||md|4SJ842H854DQ54CQJ5,SAKQ9HT97DT7CA942,S63HQJ63DAK863C83,ST75HAK2DJ92CKT76|sv|b|mb|p|mb|p|mb|1C|mb|1D|mb|1S!|an|no major|mb|2D|mb|p|mb|p|mb|d|an| |mb|p|mb|3C|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|dA|pc|d2|pc|d5|pc|d7|pg|| pc|h6|pc|hA|pc|h4|pc|h7|pg|| pc|cK|pc|c5|pc|c4|pc|c3|pg|| pc|c6|pc|cJ|pc|cA|pc|c8|pg|| pc|dT|pc|dK|pc|d9|pc|d4|pg|| pc|hQ|pc|hK|pc|h5|pc|h9|pg|| pc|s5|pc|s4|pc|sA|pc|s3|pg|| pc|sK|pc|s6|pc|sT|pc|s2|pg|| pc|sQ|pc|d3|pc|s7|pc|s8|pg|| mc|9|pg|| qx|o27|st||md|1SAQ98H642DK87CJ74,S65HQ98753D95CK86,ST743HAKTDQT62CA9,SKJ2HJDAJ43CQT532|sv|o|mb|p|mb|p|mb|1D!|nt|ahollan1: 1@D still 11-15, 2+@D|pg|| mb|2C|mb|d|mb|2H|nt|ritong: the overcall is not pure, but 1@d 2@c is known to be annoying for the opponents|pg|| nt|ahollan1: EW convention card does say 2@D does include 5-9 w/ 6M|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|s4|pc|sJ|pc|sQ|pc|s5|pg|| nt|ahollan1: i first read about the rationale for overcalling 1@D with 2@C with less than what the literature - to that point - dictated by reading the seminal "Complete Book of Overcalls" by ...|pg|| nt|ahollan1: Mike Lawrence|pg|| pc|h4|nt|ritong: i tend to trust lawrence|pg|| pc|h3|pc|hK|pc|hJ|pg|| nt|ahollan1: his "Complete Book of ..." series were fantastic learning experiences|pg|| nt|ahollan1: overcalls, doubles, balancing|pg|| pc|sT|nt|ahollan1: also one on passed hand bidding|pg|| pc|sK|pc|sA|pc|s6|pg|| pc|s9|pc|h5|pc|s3|pc|s2|pg|| pc|hQ|pc|hA|nt|ahollan1: great question from spec -- should passed hand 2@H bid imply fit for @C?|pg|| pc|c2|pc|h2|pg|| nt|ritong: tolerance, certainly|pg|| pc|dT|nt|ahollan1: i think it should but if partnership has grey area where they might not preempt with same hands i preempt - then it can make sense to treat 2@H as weak 2@H hand with some flaw|pg|| nt|ritong: after all, south has more or less shown majors, so why would we take the risk of a complete misfit?|pg|| pc|d3|pc|d7|pc|d5|pg|| pc|d2|pc|dA|pc|d8|pc|d9|pg|| nt|ahollan1: deja vu - i just read this somewhere however - at 3-level passed hand new suit should absolutely guarantee fit|pg|| pc|c3|pc|c4|pc|cK|pc|cA|pg|| pc|d6|pc|d4|pc|dK|pc|h7|pg|| pc|h8|pc|hT|pc|c5|pc|h6|pg|| pc|dQ|pc|dJ|pc|s8|pc|h9|pg|| pc|c6|pc|c9|pc|cQ|pc|c7|pg|| pc|cT|pc|cJ|pc|c8|pc|s7|pg|| pg|| qx|c27|st||md|1SAQ98H642DK87CJ74,S65HQ98753D95CK86,ST743HAKTDQT62CA9,SKJ2HJDAJ43CQT532|sv|o|mb|p|mb|2D!|an|multi|mb|d|an| |mb|r!|mb|p|mb|2H|mb|p|mb|p|mb|d!|mb|p|mb|2S|mb|p|mb|3S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|hJ|pc|h2|pc|h3|pc|hA|pg|| pc|s3|pc|s2|pc|sQ|pc|s5|pg|| pc|c4|pc|c8|pc|c9|pc|cT|pg|| pc|c5|pc|c7|pc|cK|pc|cA|pg|| pc|s4|pc|sJ|pc|sA|pc|s6|pg|| pc|h4|pc|h5|pc|hT|pc|d4|pg|| pc|hK|pc|c3|pc|h6|pc|h7|pg|| pc|d2|pc|d3|pc|dK|pc|d5|pg|| pc|d7|pc|d9|pc|dT|pc|dJ|pg|| pc|sK|pc|s8|pc|h8|pc|s7|pg|| mc|9|pg|| qx|o28|st||md|2SAJ74H654D873C986,SQ6HAQ972DA952CK7,S8HJ83DKQJT4CA532,SKT9532HKTD6CQJT4|sv|n|nt|ahollan1: closed room is playing 27 in 3@S |pg|| mb|1H|mb|p|mb|1S|mb|p|mb|2D|mb|p|mb|2S|mb|p|nt|ritong: close between 2@h and 2@s|pg|| mb|3S|mb|p|mb|4S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|c6|nt|ahollan1: analogous to (1@D)-2@C (1@H)-2@D has a significant preemptive value so the overcall may be shaded a bit [true for all of the 1-under opener's suit overcalls]|pg|| nt|ritong: even 4/1 trump break will not sink this, imo|pg|| nt|ahollan1: but since opener has already shown one major and negative dbl can show the other major - the preemptive effect is must less than after (1@D)-2@C|pg|| pc|c7|pc|cA|pc|cJ|pg|| nt|ahollan1: henri what is default meaning in Frence Standard for 1@H-2@S?|pg|| nt|ahollan1: French Standard|pg|| pc|dK|pc|d6|pc|d3|pc|dA|pg|| nt|ritong: i have no idea:) to me it s a fitjump|pg|| nt|ahollan1: well fit-showing definitely not standard anywhere other than in henri's partnership :)|pg|| mc|10|pg|| qx|c28|st||md|2SAJ74H654D873C986,SQ6HAQ972DA952CK7,S8HJ83DKQJT4CA532,SKT9532HKTD6CQJT4|sv|n|mb|1H|mb|p|mb|1S|mb|p|mb|2D|mb|p|mb|2S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|c6|pc|cK|pc|cA|pc|c4|pg|| pc|dK|pc|d6|pc|d3|pc|dA|pg|| pc|h2|pc|h3|pc|hK|pc|h4|pg|| pc|s2|pc|s4|pc|sQ|pc|s8|pg|| pc|s6|pc|d4|pc|s9|pc|sJ|pg|| mc|10|pg|| qx|o29|st||md|3S97654HDKJT95CA93,SQT2HA74DAQ43CQ76,S3HKT93D2CKJT8542,SAKJ8HQJ8652D876C|sv|b|mb|3C|mb|3H|mb|5C|mb|d|mb|p|nt|ritong: combescure has no clear bid here pass is excluded so he doubles|pg|| nt|ahollan1: i bet we agree about which void is most unexpected|pg|| nt|ritong: that should be the sense of any non conventional double imo|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|pc|sK|pc|s4|pc|s2|pc|s3|pg|| pc|h8|nt|ahollan1: east wondering why partner did not raise @H|pg|| nt|ahollan1: must have AT LEAST A or K|pg|| nt|ahollan1: and AT LEAST 3-fit|pg|| nt|ritong: besides, a preempter seldom has side AK|pg|| nt|ahollan1: i.e. 3@C opener will have neither @HAK nor 5@H|pg|| nt|ahollan1: 28 nab-drijver do not bid 4@S 6 imps to france|pg|| pc|s5|nt|ahollan1: i don't see where ruff gains - but duck MAYBE helps declarer|pg|| pc|hA|pc|h3|pg|| pc|h7|nt|ahollan1: no 3@C opener in other room|pg|| pc|hT|pc|hJ|pc|c3|pg|| pc|s6|pc|sT|nt|ritong: high playability in a major is a deterrent|pg|| pc|c2|pc|s8|pg|| pc|d2|pc|d6|nt|ahollan1: this time i thought @HK |pg|| pc|dK|pc|dA|pg|| pc|h4|pc|h9|pc|hQ|pc|c9|pg|| nt|ahollan1: same contract in other room but different auction|pg|| mc|10|nt|ritong: ?|pg|| nt|ritong: down 2, perhaps?|pg|| nt|ahollan1: waiting for bob drijver to finally lead .. @HQ [south had overcalled 1@S]|pg|| pg|| qx|c29|st||md|3S97654HDKJT95CA93,SQT2HA74DAQ43CQ76,S3HKT93D2CKJT8542,SAKJ8HQJ8652D876C|sv|b|mb|p|mb|1H|mb|1S|mb|2S!|mb|3C|mb|4H|mb|5C|mb|d|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|hQ|pc|s4|pc|hA|pc|h3|pg|| pc|s2|pc|s3|pc|sJ|pc|s5|pg|| pc|sA|pc|s6|pc|sQ|pc|c4|pg|| pc|c5|pc|h2|pc|cA|pc|c6|pg|| pc|c3|pc|c7|pc|cJ|pc|h6|pg|| pc|hT|pc|hJ|pc|c9|pc|h7|pg|| pc|s7|pc|sT|pc|c8|pc|s8|pg|| pc|cK|pc|d6|pc|d5|pc|cQ|pg|| pc|d2|pc|d8|pc|dK|pc|dA|pg|| mc|10|pg|| qx|o30|st||md|4SAJ8742HTD762C873,SQHQJ75DJ854CKJ65,ST96HK862DA93CAQ9,SK53HA943DKQTCT42|sv|o|nt|ahollan1: hmmm now 29 changed to down 1|pg|| nt|vugrapho1: yes, sry -2|pg|| nt|ahollan1: this is final board of the match|pg|| nt|ritong: okay|pg|| nt|ahollan1: round 4 of 10 starts in 35 min|pg|| nt|ahollan1: qualifying swiss has 5 rounds of 10 board matches today and tomorrow|pg|| nt|ahollan1: then top 16 advance to KO|pg|| nt|ahollan1: 1@C-2@S-?|pg|| nt|ahollan1: 1@D-2@S-?|pg|| nt|ahollan1: P-2@S-?|pg|| nt|ahollan1: i've run out of guesses|pg|| nt|ahollan1: oh mini-NT for east|pg|| nt|ritong: yes|pg|| mb|1N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|s4|pc|sQ|pc|s6|pc|s3|pg|| nt|ahollan1: non-vul 1N=9-12 in 1st/2nd|pg|| nt|ritong: at least 8 tricks in 2@s, so no big deal|pg|| nt|ahollan1: i should have looked at CC before rambling instead of after|pg|| nt|ahollan1: bob drijver also opened 1N|pg|| nt|ahollan1: but iontzeff balanced with DBL|pg|| nt|ritong: relatively normal since pard can have about 14 hcp|pg|| mc|5|nt|ahollan1: interesting treatment (1N)-P-(P)-DBL//(P)-? dechelette 2@H was transfer to @S|pg|| nt|ahollan1: next round in 30 min|pg|| pg|| qx|c30|st||md|4SAJ8742HTD762C873,SQHQJ75DJ854CKJ65,ST96HK862DA93CAQ9,SK53HA943DKQTCT42|sv|o|mb|1N!|mb|p|mb|p|mb|d|mb|p|an| |mb|2H|an| |mb|p|mb|2S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|2N!|mb|p|mb|3C|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|hT|pc|hQ|pc|hK|pc|hA|pg|| pc|dQ|pc|d2|pc|d4|pc|d3|pg|| nt|ritong: @h2|pg|| nt|ritong: "please pard don t underlead you @s A"|pg|| pc|dK|pc|d6|pc|d5|pc|dA|pg|| pc|h2|pc|h4|pc|c3|pc|h5|pg|| nt|ritong: @h6 was possible too, like " i have no preference", but the 2 is clearer|pg|| pc|sA|pc|sQ|pc|s6|pc|s3|pg|| pc|c7|pc|c5|pc|cQ|pc|c2|pg|| pc|h6|pc|h3|nt|ritong: old nick got the message|pg|| pc|c8|pc|h7|pg|| mc|7|pg||