vg|A 2015 Baze Sr_ KO SF,Segment 1 of 4,I,1,15,Gupta,0,Meltzer,0| rs|3NE=,4SE=,4SE+1,4SE+1,2NN-1,2DS+1,4SE-1,4SW-1,3NE-1,1NE+1,5DSx-1,4HEx-1,4SW=,4SW=,3CS-1,2SE-1,5HE=,5SNx-3,4SE-1,4SE-1,4SW=,4SW+1,3NE+2,5DW-1,3SS-3,2NN-3,3CEx-3,5DN=,4SE-1,4SE=| pn|Gupta,Sutherlin,Miller,Morse,Meltzer,Rodwell,Mohan,Meckstroth|pg|| qx|o1|st||md|3SKT32HKT96DJ73C65,SQ974H872DK95CT93,SHQJ43DT8642CKQ87,SAJ865HA5DAQCAJ42|sv|o|mb|p|mb|2C|mb|p|mb|2D|mb|p|mb|2N|mb|p|mb|3N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|hT|pc|h2|pc|h4|pc|h5|pg|| pc|h9|pc|h7|pc|h3|pc|hA|pg|| pc|sA|pc|s2|pc|s4|pc|d2|pg|| pc|s5|pc|sK|pc|s7|pc|c7|pg|| pc|hK|pc|h8|pc|hJ|pc|c2|pg|| pc|h6|pc|c3|pc|hQ|pc|c4|pg|| pc|cK|pc|cA|pc|c5|pc|c9|pg|| pc|dA|mc|9|pg|| qx|c1|st||md|3SKT32HKT96DJ73C65,SQ974H872DK95CT93,SHQJ43DT8642CKQ87,SAJ865HA5DAQCAJ42|sv|o|mb|p|mb|1C!|mb|p|mb|1D!|mb|p|mb|1S!|nt|chmitty: Hi all :) Good morning Denver|pg|| mb|p|mb|2S|mb|p|mb|4S|nt|ahollan1: 1@C = 16+ unbal or 17+ bal|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: 1@D = 0-7|pg|| pc|c6|pc|c3|pc|cQ|pc|cA|pg|| nt|ahollan1: 1@S = 4+@S, maybe 4M longer minor, F1|pg|| pc|sA|nt|ahollan1: 2@S = 4-fit|pg|| nt|bettinakal: looks like a @h and a @s loser, even when trump misbehave|pg|| pc|s2|pc|s4|pc|d6|pg|| nt|chmitty: nobody can explain systems faster than Al :) ty|pg|| pc|dA|mc|10|pg|| qx|o2|st||md|4ST63HKQ3DAT94CK87,S987H8DKQ762CQT96,SK2HJ96542DJ53C32,SAQJ54HAT7D8CAJ54|sv|n|nt|medwards: E-W fortunate that hearts split|pg|| mb|1S|mb|p|mb|2S|mb|p|mb|4S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|hK|pc|h8|pc|h6|pc|hA|pg|| pc|d8|pc|dA|pc|d2|pc|d3|pg|| pc|s3|pc|s7|pc|sK|pc|sA|pg|| pc|h7|pc|h3|pc|s8|pc|h2|pg|| pc|dK|pc|d5|pc|hT|pc|d4|pg|| pc|cQ|pc|c3|pc|c4|pc|cK|pg|| pc|sT|pc|s9|pc|s2|mc|11|pg|| qx|c2|st||md|4ST63HKQ3DAT94CK87,S987H8DKQ762CQT96,SK2HJ96542DJ53C32,SAQJ54HAT7D8CAJ54|sv|n|nt|ahollan1: Mohan plays with Rose Meltzer |pg|| mb|1C!|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: Meckstroth plays with some rookie|pg|| mb|1D!|mb|p|mb|1S|mb|p|mb|2D!|nt|chmitty: his name is "West"|pg|| mb|p|mb|2S|mb|p|nt|chmitty: don't know that guy|pg|| mb|3C|mb|p|mb|3H!|nt|ahollan1: same start as previous board|pg|| mb|p|nt|ahollan1: but 2@D = 5-7, 3-fit|pg|| mb|4C|mb|p|mb|4S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|s3|pc|s7|pc|sK|pc|sA|pg|| pc|d8|pc|d4|pc|dK|pc|d3|pg|| pc|h8|pc|h6|pc|hA|pc|h3|pg|| nt|chmitty: 4 sets, 15 boards each today|pg|| pc|h7|pc|hK|pc|s8|pc|h2|pg|| pc|cQ|pc|c3|pc|c5|pc|cK|pg|| pc|sT|pc|s9|nt|chmitty: if you like to watch several tables in parallel : www.bridgebase.com/client/vugraph.php|pg|| pc|s2|pc|sQ|pg|| nt|chmitty: open one window per table|pg|| mc|11|pg|| qx|o3|st||md|1SAKT2H7DQJT863CQ4,SQ3HT9854DAKCJT85,S986HQJ62D2CAK976,SJ754HAK3D9754C32|sv|e|mb|1D|mb|p|mb|1H|mb|p|mb|1S|mb|p|mb|1N|mb|p|mb|2D|mb|p|mb|2N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|hA|nt|medwards: Not sure why north would bid 2NT here when south could not play 1NT|pg|| pc|h7|pc|h4|pc|h6|pg|| pc|s4|pc|sA|pc|s3|pc|s6|pg|| pc|dQ|pc|dK|pc|d2|pc|d5|pg|| pc|hT|pc|hQ|pc|hK|pc|d3|pg|| nt|chmitty: hi:) operator pls, any chance to put the names of the pkayers when you have one minute ? many are asking :) tx|pg|| pc|h3|pc|s2|pc|h8|pc|hJ|pg|| pc|c6|pc|c2|pc|cQ|pc|c5|pg|| pc|dJ|pc|dA|pc|h2|pc|d4|pg|| pc|h9|pc|s8|pc|s5|pc|sT|pg|| pc|h5|pc|c7|pc|s7|pc|d6|pg|| mc|7|pg|| qx|c3|st||md|1SAKT2H7DQJT863CQ4,SQ3HT9854DAKCJT85,S986HQJ62D2CAK976,SJ754HAK3D9754C32|sv|e|mb|1D|mb|p|mb|1H|mb|p|nt|chmitty: let me bet : final contract 2@d |pg|| mb|1S|mb|p|mb|1N|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: we do have voice commentary for our table|pg|| mb|2D|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: that is also accessible via link that Pierre gave [i.e. without needing to log in]|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|nt|chmitty: won :)|pg|| pc|cJ|pc|c6|pc|c2|pc|cQ|pg|| pc|c4|pc|c5|pc|cA|pc|c3|pg|| pc|cK|pc|d7|pc|h7|pc|c8|pg|| nt|ahollan1: Gupta picked up an imp on 1 other room played 3N making vs our 4M|pg|| pc|d5|pc|dQ|nt|ahollan1: now just hold on for 59 boards and Gupta will be in the final for 4th year in a row|pg|| nt|bettinakal: :)|pg|| pc|dK|pc|d2|pg|| pc|hT|pc|hQ|pc|hK|pc|d3|pg|| pc|dT|pc|dA|nt|bettinakal: how many of those finals did they win?|pg|| pc|h2|pc|d4|pg|| nt|ahollan1: EW carding [with some exceptions] upside-down count/attitude/smith AND suit-preferene|pg|| pc|h8|nt|ahollan1: 2012 was 2nd place -- then they added Rodwell to win in 2013 & 2014|pg|| pc|hJ|pc|hA|pc|d6|pg|| pc|dJ|pc|h4|pc|c7|pc|d9|pg|| nt|ahollan1: meckstroth, rodwell and billy miller are grandfathered in to this event even though not yet 60 |pg|| nt|chmitty: oh ... just coming in (Mr. Rodwell) arrived late maybe|pg|| pc|sA|pc|s3|pc|s6|pc|s5|pg|| nt|ahollan1: ACBL is slowly moving age requirement from 55 to 60|pg|| pc|sK|pc|sQ|pc|s8|pc|s4|pg|| pc|s2|mc|9|nt|ahollan1: this year, i think requirement was 56|pg|| pg|| qx|o4|st||md|2SHJT74DJ74CKQ9853,SKQJTHA8653DKT3C6,S98652HK2D52CAT42,SA743HQ9DAQ986CJ7|sv|b|mb|2D!|mb|p|mb|4S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|nt|medwards: Pumping the dummy should beat four spades.|pg|| pc|cK|pc|c6|pc|cA|pc|c7|pg|| pc|c2|pc|cJ|pc|cQ|pc|sT|pg|| nt|medwards: North knows the position and will play accordingly|pg|| pc|sK|pc|s2|pc|s3|pc|c5|pg|| pc|dK|pc|d2|pc|d6|pc|d4|pg|| pc|d3|pc|d5|pc|dA|pc|d7|pg|| pc|dQ|pc|dJ|pc|dT|pc|s5|pg|| pc|s6|pc|s4|pc|c3|pc|sJ|pg|| pc|h3|pc|hK|pc|h9|pc|h4|pg|| pc|cT|pc|d8|pc|c8|pc|sQ|pg|| pc|h5|pc|h2|pc|hQ|pc|h7|pg|| pc|sA|pc|hT|pc|h6|pc|s8|pg|| mc|9|pg|| qx|c4|st||md|2SHJT74DJ74CKQ9853,SKQJTHA8653DKT3C6,S98652HK2D52CAT42,SA743HQ9DAQ986CJ7|sv|b|nt|chmitty: 62 in france ... will be 65 in 3 years from now|pg|| mb|1H|mb|p|nt|chmitty: we are an old country|pg|| mb|2D|mb|p|nt|bettinakal: EW 13 and 13 hcp........ can they avoid slam!! :)|pg|| mb|2S|nt|ahollan1: 1@H = 10-15 // 2@D = FG, 5+suit|pg|| mb|p|mb|4S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|nt|bettinakal: those guys are always dreamins about slam .. they are in game on 22-23hcp|pg|| pc|s2|nt|chmitty: A@c lead for sure ... or maybe a trump ?|pg|| pc|s3|nt|chmitty: a trump|pg|| pc|c3|pc|sT|pg|| nt|bettinakal: in slam you always have a @h and a @c loser|pg|| nt|chmitty: let's try and make 10 tricks first OK ?|pg|| nt|chmitty: not sure you can make that|pg|| nt|vugraphzfj: Rodwell pause|pg|| pc|h5|pc|hK|pc|h9|pc|h4|pg|| nt|chmitty: @c now is a must|pg|| pc|cA|nt|ahollan1: no names for players in other room [lost after the crash] i'm sure NS = Miller-Gupta but no guess for EW|pg|| pc|c7|nt|chmitty: but nothing clear|pg|| pc|c9|pc|c6|pg|| pc|c2|pc|cJ|pc|cQ|pc|sJ|pg|| nt|chmitty: I'll ask the operator to put their names|pg|| nt|ahollan1: expectation for Team Gupta Gupta-Miller play 1st & 2nd set meckwell play 1/3/4 bramley-stansby play 2/3/4|pg|| pc|h6|pc|h2|pc|hQ|pc|h7|pg|| nt|ahollan1: we can probably guess by looking at tops of heads in video|pg|| nt|chmitty: not Clooney, not Gere ...|pg|| nt|ahollan1: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdR1LkLWMhveezFaFgzdBWA is top level page for video|pg|| nt|chmitty: kibs who know them might help|pg|| nt|chmitty: we have the names :)|pg|| nt|chmitty: Morse Sutherlin EW|pg|| nt|chmitty: Rodwell in the tank, trying to find ONE winning line ... but there is none I believe|pg|| nt|ahollan1: that EW pair must be the oldest in semi-final Sutherlin born 1936 Morse 1938|pg|| nt|bettinakal: while we and voice commentator, Rodwell is going thru it all too.....If there is a way, he's the guy to find it |pg|| pc|dA|pc|d4|pc|d3|pc|d2|pg|| pc|d6|pc|d7|pc|dK|pc|d5|pg|| nt|ahollan1: interesting thread on bridgewinners.com about ways to improve vugraph suggestion players in separate rooms giving their own commentary about explanations / thought process / ...|pg|| nt|ahollan1: etc|pg|| nt|chmitty: if north follows 3 times in @d he would be home|pg|| nt|ahollan1: can't imagine it being used for anything besides exhibition, but sure could be a treat|pg|| nt|chmitty: Right Al :) I've always been dreaming of the time (that will happen) when players will tell their thoughts live to the audience|pg|| pc|hA|pc|s8|pc|d8|pc|hT|pg|| nt|ahollan1: don't let Roland see Open Room auction for 4|pg|| nt|ahollan1: indeed he guessed correctly |pg|| nt|ahollan1: 4@S 5@H is a giveaway|pg|| nt|chmitty: same contract next door|pg|| nt|chmitty: Mohan unsure of who has the @h Jack|pg|| nt|chmitty: thinking whether he can beat 4@s if declarer have it|pg|| nt|chmitty: and he will find that in any case @s is the only way|pg|| pc|s5|pc|s4|pc|c5|nt|chmitty: well defended|pg|| pc|sK|pg|| pc|dT|pc|s6|mc|9|pg|| qx|o5|st||md|3SAT9HJT97DT83CQT3,SJ4HQ432DA96CJ964,SQ85H86DQJ752CA82,SK7632HAK5DK4CK75|sv|n|mb|p|mb|1N|mb|p|mb|2C|mb|p|mb|2S|mb|p|mb|2N|mb|p|mb|3N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|nt|medwards: This probably will not play well|pg|| pc|hJ|pc|h2|pc|h6|pc|hK|pg|| pc|s3|pc|s9|pc|sJ|pc|sQ|pg|| pc|h8|pc|h5|pc|hT|pc|hQ|pg|| pc|s4|pc|s5|pc|sK|pc|sA|pg|| pc|h7|pc|h3|pc|d5|pc|hA|pg|| pc|s7|pc|sT|pc|c4|pc|s8|pg|| pc|h9|pc|h4|pc|c8|pc|c5|pg|| pc|c3|pc|c6|pc|cA|pc|c7|pg|| mc|8|pg|| qx|c5|st||md|3SAT9HJT97DT83CQT3,SJ4HQ432DA96CJ964,SQ85H86DQJ752CA82,SK7632HAK5DK4CK75|sv|n|nt|bettinakal: what looked like slam, was only 9 tricks..... Bridge is the GAME |pg|| mb|p|mb|1N!|an|14-16|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: 1N 1/2/3nv = 14-16 3vul/4 = 15-17|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|pc|hT|nt|chmitty: 24 hcp combined and 7 tricks not 100% sure|pg|| nt|vugraphzfj: Rusinow from 4 or more|pg|| pc|h2|pc|h6|pc|hA|pg|| nt|ahollan1: if you think east worth an upgrade KnR evaluates to only 16.10 [does not like unsupported Kings in short suits]|pg|| pc|s3|pc|s9|pc|sJ|pc|sQ|pg|| pc|h8|pc|h5|pc|h7|pc|hQ|pg|| nt|bettinakal: 16+8hck, normally game for Rodwell-Meckstroth...But but hands balance, thats slowing them down....|pg|| pc|s4|pc|s8|pc|sK|pc|sA|pg|| nt|ahollan1: range difference showing here other room Sutherlin uses stayman vs 15-17 and reaches 3N|pg|| pc|h9|pc|h3|pc|d5|pc|hK|pg|| pc|s6|pc|sT|pc|c4|pc|s5|pg|| nt|chmitty: I must say I love 14-16 NT|pg|| pc|hJ|pc|h4|pc|c2|pc|c7|pg|| pc|d3|nt|ahollan1: i think we should have access to CCs for all of the pairs in this match|pg|| nt|chmitty: when you open most (if not all) 11 hcp hands, you can't have such a wide range (11-14) for a NT rebid|pg|| pc|d6|nt|ahollan1: click on player name [unless using original windoze bbo]|pg|| pc|dQ|pc|dK|pg|| pc|s7|nt|ahollan1: they have changed angle of video!!! can now see some faces, not just tops of heads|pg|| pc|c3|nt|chmitty: North is squeezed now for the overtrick ... open cards|pg|| pc|c6|pc|d2|pg|| pc|s2|nt|ahollan1: With Open Cards -- great book by Eric Jannersten|pg|| nt|ahollan1: long out of print|pg|| nt|chmitty: new leader in this match :)|pg|| pc|d8|pc|d9|pc|d7|pg|| pc|d4|pc|dT|pc|dA|pc|dJ|pg|| pc|cJ|pc|c8|pc|cK|pc|cT|pg|| pc|c5|pc|cQ|pc|c9|pc|cA|pg|| pg|| qx|o6|st||md|4SAJ843H95DKQ9C865,SKQ975HKT762DT3CT,S62HDAJ642CAQ9732,STHAQJ843D875CKJ4|sv|e|nt|medwards: Action hand|pg|| mb|1H|mb|1S|mb|4H|mb|4N|mb|p|mb|5D|mb|d|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|cT|pc|cA|pc|c4|pc|c8|pg|| pc|d2|pc|d5|pc|dK|pc|d3|pg|| pc|dQ|pc|dT|pc|d4|pc|d7|pg|| pc|d9|pc|h2|pc|dA|pc|d8|pg|| pc|c2|pc|cJ|pc|c5|pc|h6|pg|| pc|sT|pc|sJ|pc|sK|pc|s2|pg|| pc|h7|pc|d6|pc|h3|pc|h5|pg|| pc|c3|pc|cK|pc|c6|pc|s5|pg|| mc|10|pg|| qx|c6|st||md|4SAJ843H95DKQ9C865,SKQ975HKT762DT3CT,S62HDAJ642CAQ9732,STHAQJ843D875CKJ4|sv|e|nt|bettinakal: and an extra imp for the overtrick|pg|| mb|1H|nt|ahollan1: 1@H-(1@S)-4@H?|pg|| nt|ahollan1: then what|pg|| nt|chmitty: open room in 5@d x|pg|| mb|1S|mb|4H!|an|not necessarily weak|nt|chmitty: 4SA by North ... |pg|| nt|bettinakal: 4NT for minors|pg|| nt|chmitty: is that minors for sure ??|pg|| nt|ahollan1: 4@H is wide range since 1@H = limited|pg|| nt|chmitty: should be discussed|pg|| nt|ahollan1: in college we would describe 4N as 'shows the values for 4N in this auction'|pg|| nt|ahollan1: they hated us back then|pg|| nt|chmitty: :)|pg|| nt|bettinakal: Non Vul....I hope it is :)|pg|| nt|buddyshah: yes maybe a case|pg|| nt|ahollan1: can't imagine anyone playing 4N as anything other than minors|pg|| nt|buddyshah: Sorry Pvt. but 4NT here maybe a case for @S|pg|| nt|chmitty: @s KJxx 10xxx x AKxx what's your bid ?|pg|| mb|d|nt|bettinakal: 4NT is either Aces asking with @s, otherwise it would be Minors|pg|| mb|p|nt|ahollan1: RKC for @S opposite overcall just too rare|pg|| nt|bettinakal: Do you and your P, have an agrement?? :)|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|pc|dK|pc|dT|pc|d6|pc|d5|pg|| nt|chmitty: tha fact is : 4@sx down 1 and 5@dx down 1 ... the proof of the oudding is in the eating|pg|| nt|bettinakal: I think equel vul or non vul= minors..VUl ag nv = ace asking.....maybe...Ahh Im not sure ;)|pg|| pc|c6|pc|cT|pc|cA|pc|c4|pg|| nt|chmitty: 4@h x sry|pg|| pc|dA|pc|d7|pc|d9|pc|d3|pg|| pc|s6|pc|sT|pc|sA|pc|s5|pg|| mc|9|nt|chmitty: Mohan happy when he sees 4 hands|pg|| pg|| qx|o7|st||md|1S987H632DKT942CQJ,SK3HAKQ54DQJ3C632,SA4HT987D876CK954,SQJT652HJDA5CAT87|sv|b|nt|medwards: A heart lead would have been more exciting|pg|| mb|p|mb|1N|mb|p|mb|2H|mb|p|mb|2S|mb|p|mb|4H|mb|p|mb|4S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|c5|nt|medwards: Good lead now declarer must time the play the spade nine could be in play|pg|| pc|c7|pc|cQ|pc|c6|pg|| pc|cJ|pc|c3|pc|c9|pc|cA|pg|| pc|c8|pc|h2|pc|c2|pc|cK|pg|| pc|sA|pc|s2|pc|s7|pc|s3|pg|| pc|c4|pc|cT|pc|s8|pc|sK|pg|| pc|dQ|pc|d6|pc|dA|pc|d2|pg|| mc|10|pg|| qx|c7|st||md|1S987H632DKT942CQJ,SK3HAKQ54DQJ3C632,SA4HT987D876CK954,SQJT652HJDA5CAT87|sv|b|nt|bettinakal: OT took the SAC in 5@d..they had agreements|pg|| nt|ahollan1: [cough] we all thought DBL was so obvious that it needed no discussion|pg|| nt|chmitty: agree :)|pg|| mb|p|mb|1N!|an|14-16|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: another 14-16|pg|| mb|2H!|an|!S|mb|p|mb|2S|nt|chmitty: how much is this West's hand worth Al ?|pg|| mb|p|nt|ahollan1: 2@H means he will make slam try|pg|| mb|4H!|an|shortness|mb|p|mb|4S|mb|p|nt|bettinakal: now a days, everybody glady open NT with 5 card major...I like it :)|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: self-splinter guarantees 6+@S|pg|| nt|pelu: now a days, everybody glady open NT with 5 card major...I hate it :)|pg|| pc|hT|nt|chmitty: Hi Peter :)|pg|| nt|bettinakal: LOL Peter Lund, my friend...But not P ;)|pg|| nt|chmitty: If you perform a very deep analysis (with the help of computers) the 1NT opening with this hand is a winner :) |pg|| nt|chmitty: I accept to be hung :)|pg|| pc|hJ|pc|h6|nt|ahollan1: @H lead when dummy known shortness [and opener discouraged] seems strange/passive/|pg|| nt|chmitty: :)|pg|| nt|ahollan1: i would wager my own money that Rodwell HAS run computer simulation|pg|| nt|chmitty: you can|pg|| pc|hQ|pg|| pc|hA|pc|h7|nt|bettinakal: 1NT - 2@d/@h , 2@h/@s - jump in new suit (here 4@h) = a singleton, and some interest in slam...Do our cards fit together?? When 1NT opener has xxxx @h..Cards for sure fit |pg|| pc|c7|pc|h3|pg|| pc|hK|pc|h9|pc|c8|pc|h2|pg|| pc|sK|pc|sA|pc|s2|nt|ahollan1: voice commentary talking about Puppet Stayman|pg|| pc|s7|pg|| pc|d8|pc|dA|pc|d2|nt|chmitty: can you give us the link once more Al ?|pg|| pc|d3|pg|| pc|sQ|pc|s8|pc|s3|pc|s4|pg|| nt|ahollan1: note that author Kit Woolsey no longer uses 2@C puppet over 1N|pg|| pc|sJ|pc|s9|pc|h4|pc|c4|pg|| pc|d5|pc|dK|pc|dQ|pc|d6|pg|| pc|cQ|mc|10|nt|ahollan1: but development was done in part with then partner Steve Robinson who does play 2@C Puppet over 1N|pg|| nt|ahollan1: on vugraph we see increasing numbers of 1N-3@C and 1N-2N [meckwell] as Puppet Stayman|pg|| pg|| qx|o8|st||md|2SQJ62H3DKJ2CA6542,SA73HJT975DQ54C87,S4HQ842DAT986CKJ9,SKT985HAK6D73CQT3|sv|o|mb|p|mb|p|mb|1S|mb|p|mb|2S|mb|d|mb|p|mb|3C|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|hJ|pc|h2|pc|h6|pc|h3|pg|| pc|hT|pc|h4|pc|hA|pc|c2|pg|| pc|c4|pc|c7|pc|cJ|pc|cQ|pg|| pc|sT|pc|sQ|pc|sA|pc|s4|pg|| pc|c8|pc|c9|pc|cT|pc|cA|pg|| pc|c5|pc|h5|pc|cK|pc|c3|pg|| pc|dT|pc|d3|pc|dJ|pc|dQ|pg|| pc|s7|pc|h8|pc|sK|pc|s2|pg|| mc|8|pg|| qx|c8|st||md|2SQJ62H3DKJ2CA6542,SA73HJT975DQ54C87,S4HQ842DAT986CKJ9,SKT985HAK6D73CQT3|sv|o|mb|p|mb|p|mb|1S|nt|ahollan1: Puppet vs Muppet refers to response structure|pg|| nt|buddyshah: i think it was played by a enthusiast:) |pg|| nt|bettinakal: mostly all those conventions are more about, what you and your P likes|pg|| mb|p|mb|2S|nt|ahollan1: is west worth a "constructive" 2@S bid?|pg|| nt|ahollan1: oh passed hand -- never mind|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: limited by failure to use Drury|pg|| mb|p|pc|h3|pc|hJ|pc|h8|pc|h6|pg|| pc|c7|pc|cK|pc|c3|pc|c2|pg|| pc|h4|pc|hA|pc|s2|pc|h5|pg|| nt|chmitty: I would play the Q@h|pg|| nt|chmitty: my partner can read the 4 ... unless he is tired|pg|| nt|ahollan1: after peeking GIB probably leads @DJ or @DK|pg|| nt|ahollan1: at the table nothing looks appealling|pg|| nt|bettinakal: I think the first @h from N, the 8 said @d is what I got|pg|| nt|chmitty: true but again ... help partner as much as you can|pg|| nt|ahollan1: still bidding in Open Room but i will tell you that Miller DID double 2@S|pg|| nt|ahollan1: seemed clear cut DBL to me|pg|| pc|cA|pc|c8|pc|c9|pc|cT|pg|| nt|ahollan1: Gupta playing 3@C|pg|| nt|chmitty: he will make 3@c : good bidding, nice reward|pg|| pc|d2|pc|dQ|pc|dA|pc|d7|pg|| pc|hQ|pc|hK|pc|s6|pc|h7|pg|| pc|dK|pc|d4|pc|d8|pc|d3|pg|| pc|dJ|pc|d5|pc|d6|pc|s5|pg|| nt|bettinakal: N should have DBL 2@d as T/O, but bidding too fast, forgot to think.......That would be me, Im talking about...Take your time, Bettina|pg|| nt|bettinakal: **2@S|pg|| mc|7|nt|ahollan1: digression: if north does DBL are you and partner on same page about meaning of partner's 2N advance|pg|| nt|bettinakal: Thanks Roland :)|pg|| pg|| qx|o9|st||md|3SQJ82HADK532C9543,SA9763H542DJ64CT8,SK54H7DAQT98CQJ62,STHKQJT9863D7CAK7|sv|e|mb|1D|nt|medwards: Probably a high level decision coming up|pg|| mb|d|mb|r|mb|1S|mb|2C|mb|4H|mb|5D|mb|5H|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|d3|pc|d4|pc|dA|pc|d7|pg|| nt|medwards: Fortunate 4x3 save in the CR|pg|| pc|h7|pc|hK|pc|hA|pc|h2|pg|| nt|medwards: Not often see a save on a four three fit|pg|| mc|11|pg|| qx|c9|st||md|3SQJ82HADK532C9543,SA9763H542DJ64CT8,SK54H7DAQT98CQJ62,STHKQJT9863D7CAK7|sv|e|mb|1D|nt|ahollan1: bettina - he loses points for mentioning the year|pg|| nt|bettinakal: Im born 1963|pg|| nt|chmitty: I am :) every time 2NT is "forced" it means : 2 places to play|pg|| mb|4H|nt|bettinakal: October :)|pg|| mb|d|an|T/O with !S|mb|p|nt|bettinakal: But my P was younger, Charlotte Koch- Palmund|pg|| nt|ahollan1: there was period in late 70s/early 80s when people were playing Namyats Overcalls|pg|| nt|bettinakal: back to the board, a nice hand for 4@h|pg|| mb|4S|nt|chmitty: x : try and find our @s|pg|| nt|ahollan1: so (1@D)-4@H weak|pg|| nt|chmitty: 4@s : hope you have 5|pg|| nt|bettinakal: the Dbl show points, hopefully also @s|pg|| nt|ahollan1: 4@S = Larry Cohen's Rule: 4@H forces 4@S|pg|| nt|ahollan1: too bad Mohan could not RDBL to have partner pick suit|pg|| mb|5H|nt|chmitty: East's hand is the most interesting|pg|| nt|chmitty: do you think 5@h is a winning bid ? |pg|| nt|bettinakal: 5@h looks like a SAC, but it is a WINNER |pg|| nt|ahollan1: now Rod probably thinks his @SA opposite Meck void|pg|| mb|5S|mb|d|nt|chmitty: what would X mean ?|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|nt|chmitty: all matters that have to be discussed|pg|| pc|cK|pc|c3|nt|ahollan1: after 2 days and 9 boards i only have one finger remaining to count occurences of 8-card suits|pg|| pc|cT|pc|c2|pg|| nt|ahollan1: standard signals after lead that shows AK|pg|| nt|bettinakal: S "could see" E was short in @s and @d, with no defense in @c, S desided to bid on....good think :)|pg|| pc|cA|pc|c4|pc|c8|pc|cJ|pg|| nt|ahollan1: if you normally lead A from AK -- change at 5-level or higher|pg|| pc|c7|pc|c5|pc|s3|pc|cQ|pg|| nt|ahollan1: a) often want to lead unsupported Ace b) King asking for count helps in cashout situations|pg|| nt|bettinakal: or always play ALA Ace=attitude K=Length Q=Att|pg|| nt|ahollan1: i like that acronym|pg|| pc|h4|pc|h7|pc|h3|pc|hA|pg|| nt|ahollan1: if i can remember it -- i'm going to steal it|pg|| nt|bettinakal: please, be my guest :) ALA Att-Len-Att|pg|| nt|bettinakal: other match Helms - Kasle : 16 - 6|pg|| pc|s2|pc|s6|pc|sK|pc|sT|pg|| pc|s5|pc|h6|pc|sQ|mc|8|nt|ahollan1: 60 board matches, so probably a bit early to predict winners [unless you work on a 24 hour news channel]|pg|| nt|buddyshah: no fun|pg|| pg|| qx|o10|st||md|4SA8HAT642DJ64CJ53,SK752H9DT3CAKQT96,ST6HQJ75DAKQ72C87,SQJ943HK83D985C42|sv|b|mb|p|mb|p|mb|1C|mb|1D|mb|1S|mb|2H|nt|vugraphzfc: Some type of director call, Sutherlin has left the room|pg|| mb|3S|mb|4H|mb|4S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|d4|pc|d3|pc|dK|pc|d5|pg|| pc|dA|pc|d8|pc|d6|pc|dT|pg|| pc|hQ|pc|hK|pc|hA|pc|h9|pg|| pc|c3|pc|cA|pc|c7|pc|c2|pg|| pc|s2|pc|s6|pc|sQ|pc|sA|pg|| pc|c5|pc|cK|pc|c8|pc|c4|pg|| mc|9|pg|| qx|c10|st||md|4SA8HAT642DJ64CJ53,SK752H9DT3CAKQT96,ST6HQJ75DAKQ72C87,SQJ943HK83D985C42|sv|b|mb|p|nt|buddyshah: Actually Torchure|pg|| nt|bettinakal: I was curious..thought other might be too... Sorry Im female :)|pg|| nt|ahollan1: 2@C = 10-15, 6+@C [3rd seat maybe good 5@C]|pg|| mb|p|mb|2C!|an|natural, limited|mb|2D|mb|2S|mb|3D|mb|4S|nt|buddyshah: yes sir..missspelt Torchure to see reractions|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|d4|pc|d3|pc|dQ|nt|ahollan1: 2@S bid made it easy for Rodwell|pg|| pc|d5|pg|| nt|bettinakal: 4 top losers...|pg|| nt|chmitty: 4@s one off when 5@d or 5@h is cold ... will be repeated next door :) just life|pg|| pc|dA|pc|d9|nt|ahollan1: just too many losers|pg|| nt|TopWizard: No way to stay out of this game for an aggressive partnership.|pg|| pc|dJ|pc|dT|pg|| pc|hQ|pc|hK|pc|hA|pc|h9|pg|| nt|ahollan1: good save over the unbiddable 4@H|pg|| nt|ahollan1: even wins an imp opp any partscore|pg|| pc|h4|nt|bettinakal: so best result for EW, going -1|pg|| pc|s2|pc|h5|pc|h3|pg|| nt|chmitty: 5@h sry one down (@c overuff) ... 5@d ok lol :)|pg|| pc|sK|pc|sT|pc|s3|pc|sA|pg|| nt|warrens: wouldn't a X of 2@S show @H's and @D support?|pg|| mc|9|nt|chmitty: it would, definitely |pg|| nt|ahollan1: 9 [5@SX-3] Sutherlin 5@H making|pg|| nt|warrens: so, that's how 4@H becomes "biddable"|pg|| pg|| qx|o11|st||md|1SJ4HT754DK7652CA5,SAKT53HADQ4CJ9863,S2HJ862DAJT93CQT2,SQ9876HKQ93D8CK74|sv|o|mb|p|mb|1S|mb|p|mb|4D!|mb|d|mb|4H|mb|p|mb|4S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|dA|pc|d8|pc|d2|pc|d4|pg|| pc|cQ|pc|cK|pc|cA|pc|c3|pg|| pc|c5|pc|cJ|pc|c2|pc|c4|pg|| pc|sA|pc|s2|pc|s6|pc|s4|pg|| pc|s3|pc|d3|pc|sQ|pc|sJ|pg|| pc|s7|pc|d5|pc|sK|pc|dJ|pg|| pc|sT|pc|dT|pc|s8|pc|d6|pg|| pc|hA|pc|h2|pc|h3|pc|h4|pg|| pc|dQ|pc|d9|pc|s9|pc|d7|pg|| pc|hK|pc|h5|pc|c6|pc|h6|pg|| pc|hQ|pc|h7|pc|c8|pc|h8|pg|| mc|10|pg|| qx|c11|st||md|1SJ4HT754DK7652CA5,SAKT53HADQ4CJ9863,S2HJ862DAJT93CQT2,SQ9876HKQ93D8CK74|sv|o|mb|p|mb|1S|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: interesting question Warren - would Meltzer DBL be snapdragon? |pg|| nt|ahollan1: never seen it used in that sequence, but it does make sense|pg|| mb|4S!|an|not necessarily weak|nt|ahollan1: another wide range 1M-4M|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|h6|nt|buddyshah: Friends pls /Know.Operators Do their best.......Try Atleast......|pg|| nt|ahollan1: 4M can be pure preempt with 5+fit or minimum opening bid with only 3-fit|pg|| pc|h3|nt|bettinakal: this looks like a 4@s EW, if you can avoid 3 losers in @c...|pg|| nt|ahollan1: big clubbers love to make that 4M jump|pg|| pc|h5|pc|hA|pg|| pc|sA|pc|s2|pc|s6|pc|s4|pg|| nt|chmitty: fast play : draw trumps and a @d ... next eliminate @h and @d and play a @c ducked for South|pg|| pc|s3|pc|d3|pc|sQ|pc|sJ|pg|| nt|TopWizard: The @d's will be discarded, so game absolutely safe now.|pg|| pc|hK|pc|h4|pc|d4|pc|h2|pg|| pc|hQ|pc|h7|pc|dQ|pc|h8|pg|| nt|chmitty: or even easier this way yes|pg|| nt|chmitty: :)|pg|| pc|d8|nt|TopWizard: :)|pg|| pc|d2|pc|s5|pc|dJ|pg|| nt|ahollan1: note for Warren: 10 in other P-P-1@C-1@D//1@S-? Gupta bid 2@H rather than Snapdragon DBL|pg|| pc|cJ|pc|cQ|pc|cK|pc|cA|pg|| mc|11|pg|| qx|o12|st||md|2SQ742H96DKT83C872,SJ93HAQT75DAQ75CJ,ST85HK432DCKQ9653,SAK6HJ8DJ9642CAT4|sv|n|mb|1H|mb|p|mb|2D|mb|p|mb|3D|mb|p|mb|3N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|s2|pc|sJ|pc|s5|pc|s6|pg|| pc|dA|pc|c6|pc|d2|pc|d3|pg|| pc|h5|pc|h4|pc|hJ|pc|h9|pg|| pc|h8|pc|h6|pc|hQ|pc|hK|pg|| pc|s8|pc|sA|pc|s4|pc|s3|pg|| pc|d6|pc|dK|pc|d5|pc|h2|pg|| mc|11|pg|| qx|c12|st||md|2SQ742H96DKT83C872,SJ93HAQT75DAQ75CJ,ST85HK432DCKQ9653,SAK6HJ8DJ9642CAT4|sv|n|mb|1H|mb|p|mb|2C!|an|2+ !C|nt|ahollan1: i was all set for bidding over 2@C|pg|| mb|p|nt|ahollan1: as OVERCALL|pg|| mb|2D|mb|p|nt|chmitty: Conservative Pass by North ... many would bid 2@c|pg|| nt|bettinakal: most likely end up in 3NT|pg|| nt|ahollan1: meck 2@C = FG, nat or 2+@C [BAL or 3-fit]|pg|| nt|ahollan1: my guess @D suit only looked like 4|pg|| nt|ahollan1: so treating as BAL FG|pg|| mb|2N!|an|!D fit|mb|p|nt|chmitty: this is a reasonnable 6@d|pg|| mb|3C|an|OK hand|nt|bettinakal: now east is dreaming of slam...again|pg|| nt|ahollan1: better explanation -- so that i could document THIS auction|pg|| mb|d|mb|p|nt|TopWizard: It's too bad the boards are not duplicated; we hope this changes soon!|pg|| nt|ahollan1: actually this exact same start occurred in Chennai BB|pg|| mb|p|nt|chmitty: and ?|pg|| nt|ahollan1: with that 3@C also 3541|pg|| nt|chmitty: I was there but can't remember|pg|| mb|3D|an|2/3 top !D honors|mb|p|mb|3S|mb|p|nt|bettinakal: on their way away from 3NT...next stop 5@d or 6|pg|| mb|4C|mb|p|mb|4D!|an|RKC|mb|p|mb|5C|an|2 + !DQ|mb|p|mb|5D|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|nt|TopWizard: This may be difficult|pg|| nt|ahollan1: 4@D sometimes called minorwood [bidding 4 of agreed minor to ask keycards]|pg|| nt|bettinakal: looks like a @h and @d loser----but with @d behaving badly...2 losers in @d|pg|| nt|TopWizard: Rodwell may have to divine to lead the @dJack from Dummy, or he'll have two @d losers|pg|| pc|s5|nt|bettinakal: lets see one of the greatest declarer tis one|pg|| pc|sA|pc|s4|pc|s3|pg|| pc|hJ|pc|h6|pc|h7|pc|hK|pg|| nt|ahollan1: after play ends can the players rebid the hand after 1@S-P-2@D|pg|| pc|s8|nt|ahollan1: i'm curious about both final contract and opening lead from south|pg|| pc|sK|pc|s2|pc|s9|pg|| pc|h8|pc|h9|pc|hA|pc|h2|pg|| pc|hT|pc|h3|pc|s6|pc|d3|pg|| pc|c2|pc|cJ|pc|cQ|pc|cA|pg|| pc|d2|pc|d8|pc|dQ|pc|h4|pg|| mc|10|pg|| qx|o13|st||md|3ST864H962DT5CT853,SQJ53HK8DA876CKQ4,SAK7HATDK943CAJ62,S92HQJ7543DQJ2C97|sv|b|mb|1D|mb|p|mb|1S|mb|1N|mb|d|mb|2D|mb|p|mb|2H|mb|3H|mb|d|mb|p|mb|p|mb|3S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|hK|pc|hA|pc|h7|pc|h9|pg|| nt|bettinakal: Pass is the most difficult bid, of them all :)|pg|| pc|hT|pc|hJ|pc|h6|pc|h8|pg|| pc|hQ|pc|h2|pc|d6|pc|s7|pg|| pc|sA|pc|s9|pc|s4|pc|s3|pg|| pc|d3|pc|dJ|pc|d5|pc|d7|pg|| pc|s2|pc|s6|pc|s5|pc|sK|pg|| pc|d4|pc|dQ|pc|dT|pc|d8|pg|| pc|h5|pc|s8|pc|sJ|pc|c2|pg|| pc|sQ|pc|c6|pc|h4|pc|sT|pg|| pc|cK|pc|cA|pc|c7|pc|c3|pg|| pc|cJ|pc|c9|pc|c5|pc|cQ|pg|| pc|dA|pc|d9|pc|d2|pc|c8|pg|| pc|c4|pc|dK|pc|h3|pc|cT|pg|| pg|| qx|c13|st||md|3ST864H962DT5CT853,SQJ53HK8DA876CKQ4,SAK7HATDK943CAJ62,S92HQJ7543DQJ2C97|sv|b|nt|ahollan1: Great Shuffler getting good laugh fine contract doomed|pg|| mb|2N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|h5|nt|vugraphzfj: Rose " I have 2 T and 1 P".|pg|| pc|h9|pc|hK|pc|hA|pg|| pc|cA|pc|c7|pc|c3|pc|c4|pg|| pc|c2|pc|c9|pc|cT|pc|cQ|pg|| pc|h8|pc|hT|pc|hQ|pc|h2|pg|| pc|hJ|pc|h6|nt|ahollan1: 2N = 19-20|pg|| nt|vugraphzfj: 1 9"|pg|| nt|ahollan1: link to CC was broken but now fixed|pg|| pc|s5|pc|s7|pg|| pc|h4|pc|c5|pc|d7|pc|d3|pg|| pc|h3|mc|5|nt|ahollan1: 12 early in the auction that starts 1@H-2@D-3@D|pg|| pg|| qx|o14|st||md|4SJ9HKJ6DK32CKT874,SA62HT972DJ7654CA,SKQ85HA853DAQT98C,ST743HQ4DCQJ96532|sv|o|mb|3C|mb|p|mb|p|mb|d|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|sJ|pc|sA|pc|s8|pc|s3|pg|| pc|s2|pc|sQ|pc|s4|pc|s9|pg|| pc|dA|pc|c2|pc|d2|pc|d4|pg|| pc|hQ|pc|hK|pc|h2|pc|h3|pg|| pc|c4|pc|cA|nt|TopWizard: Christmas came a bit early on this board.|pg|| pc|d8|pc|c3|pg|| pc|s6|pc|sK|pc|s7|pc|dK|pg|| pc|s5|pc|sT|pc|c7|pc|d5|pg|| pc|hJ|pc|h7|pc|h5|pc|h4|pg|| nt|Aurora: Many thanks @H to all commentators- for sharing your experience with us. Our thanks to the operators and kibitzers. See you in about 15 minutes for Semifinal - Segment 2 of 4|pg|| pc|h6|pc|h9|pc|h8|pc|c5|pg|| pc|cQ|pc|cK|pc|d6|pc|d9|pg|| pc|d3|pc|d7|pc|dT|pc|c6|pg|| pc|cJ|pc|c8|pc|dJ|pc|dQ|pg|| pc|c9|pc|cT|pc|hT|pc|hA|pg|| pg|| qx|c14|st||md|4SJ9HKJ6DK32CKT874,SA62HT972DJ7654CA,SKQ85HA853DAQT98C,ST743HQ4DCQJ96532|sv|o|nt|chmitty: Al board 12 you have the answer : 1@h 2@d 3@d 3NT all Pass|pg|| nt|ahollan1: didn't someone [voice from above?] predict 12 1@H-2@D//3@D-3N//end|pg|| mb|p|nt|ahollan1: i was watching Pierre :)|pg|| nt|pelu: yes 3x ;)|pg|| mb|1C|mb|p|mb|1D|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: NS 1N opener always 14-16 so BAL 11 fits into system|pg|| mb|1N|mb|p|nt|chmitty: West dit not overcall 1@d ....|pg|| nt|ahollan1: not sure if Metzer 1N denies 4@H/@S|pg|| mb|2H|mb|p|mb|3D|mb|p|mb|3S|mb|p|mb|3N|mb|p|mb|4D|mb|p|nt|TopWizard: Yesterday, the Precision pairs for Gupta were opening balanced 10 HCP with 1@d, so apparently the range has expanded when NV|pg|| mb|5D|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|cQ|nt|TopWizard: Mohan should duck this, and will be pleasantly surprised!|pg|| nt|chmitty: open cards 12 tricks is easy ... but real lofe it's a different story|pg|| pc|c4|pc|cA|pc|d8|pg|| nt|chmitty: life*|pg|| pc|s5|pc|s3|pc|sJ|pc|sA|pg|| pc|s2|pc|sK|pc|s4|pc|s9|pg|| pc|dA|pc|c5|pc|d2|pc|d4|pg|| pc|sQ|pc|s7|pc|h6|pc|s6|pg|| pc|h3|pc|h4|pc|hK|pc|h2|pg|| pc|hJ|pc|h7|pc|hA|pc|hQ|pg|| pc|h5|pc|c2|pc|d3|nt|TopWizard: WD|pg|| pc|h9|pg|| pc|cK|pc|d5|pc|d9|pc|c3|pg|| pc|h8|pc|c6|pc|dK|pc|hT|pg|| mc|11|nt|ahollan1: 12 3N made 5 after @S lead away from Q|pg|| pg|| qx|o15|st||md|1S8H63DAKT652CJ932,S6HKJ72D9873CAKQT,S954HAQ854DJC8754,SAKQJT732HT9DQ4C6|sv|n|nt|TopWizard: 4@s can be defeated here if the D cashes out correctly and the @h's are off|pg|| mb|2D|mb|p|mb|p|nt|TopWizard: What I meant was, N-S had no way to get in any trouble here, and it always feels good to "get a number" :)|pg|| nt|bettinakal: yes 2 @d tricks and 2 @h tricks...but they have to take them in right order and right a way|pg|| mb|4S|mb|p|nt|TopWizard: Last board, thanks to Commentators, VuGraph Op, BBO and the ACBL, and of course, to our fine and active Spectators! :)|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|pc|dA|pc|d3|pc|dJ|nt|TopWizard: The play of the J in North should deny the Q, East can falsecard with his Q|pg|| pc|dQ|pg|| pc|dK|pc|d7|pc|h8|pc|d4|pg|| nt|TopWizard: If N-S playing upside down, then N must have a singleton|pg|| pc|h6|pc|h2|pc|hQ|pc|hT|pg|| pc|hA|pc|h9|pc|h3|pc|h7|pg|| mc|9|nt|TopWizard: Bingo, WD Vinita!|pg|| pg|| qx|c15|st||md|1S8H63DAKT652CJ932,S6HKJ72D9873CAKQT,S954HAQ854DJC8754,SAKQJT732HT9DQ4C6|sv|n|mb|p|mb|1D!|an|2+|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: 1@D = 10-15, 2+@D|pg|| nt|TopWizard: 4@s can go down here if @h's are led or shifted|pg|| mb|4S|mb|p|nt|Aurora: Last hand here :) Many thanks @H to all commentators- for sharing your experience with us. Our thanks to the operators and kibitzers. See you in about 30 minutes for Semifinal - Segment 2 of 4|pg|| nt|ahollan1: and 10th 8-bagger i've seen in this event|pg|| mb|p|mb|p|nt|ahollan1: Challenge the Champs top score 3N west|pg|| nt|TopWizard: Thanks to all Written and Voice Commentators, our fine VuGraph Op, the ACBL and BBO, the hosts in Denver, and of course to you, our active and loyal Spectators! :)|pg|| pc|dA|pc|d3|pc|dJ|pc|d4|pg|| pc|d5|pc|d7|nt|TopWizard: N can't have the @d Queen|pg|| pc|s9|pc|dQ|pg|| nt|bettinakal: ups, now they cant take 2 tricks in@h|pg|| nt|chmitty: arrrrgh|pg|| nt|TopWizard: Melzer didn't consider the @h shift it seems|pg|| nt|bettinakal: playing too fast again... :)|pg|| pc|hA|pc|hT|pc|h6|pc|h2|pg|| pc|hQ|pc|h9|pc|h3|pc|hK|pg|| pc|s6|mc|10|nt|ahollan1: since the 2 matches are playing different set of boards -- we can restart whenever teams decide|pg|| nt|ahollan1: open room playing 13|pg|| pg||