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More Strong NT judgement

#21 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-March-15, 17:30

View Postmiamijd, on 2019-March-15, 16:51, said:

Just as an aside, why are you using 4S as Gerber rather than 4C? Using 4S, you can't sign off at 4NT. What is the gain?

Cheers,
Mike


I hate this too which is why I will bid anything that avoids it.

It's not too difficult to identify after a bit of science that with the actual N hand you want to declare 6N from that hand rather than 6 from partner's
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#22 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2019-March-15, 18:23

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-March-15, 16:15, said:

LHO doubling with K is exactly what partner wants to hear if he has AQ, and you also have the option of bidding 6 so the holder of the spade honour(s) is on lead.

It is the last thing you want to hear though if the opening leader had the queen of spades, which he would not otherwise lead from. The same goes for bidding 2 which in many systems shows clubs. You are strong enough however, that this is unlikely to be doubled. As for why 4S is Gerber that is because 4C is both majors, 4D is hearts and 4H is spades. I don't like Gerber at all, to be honest and would "punt" 6NT the next time I get this type of hand. I think science often loses.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason. - barmar
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#23 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2019-March-15, 22:35

Hi

Hope people don't mind me adding a post, but its more a case of me trying to understand sims and how my results compare, since I'm fairly new to bridge sims

I did a basic sim (using bdeal) with N semi-balanced and 15-17 points and S with the given hand. No further constraints on EW or leads.

After 2000 hands my percentages were:

Tricks Percentage
9 1.1
10 2.7
11 15.7
12 55.6
13 20.4

Mean tricks were 11.76. Range 5-13 tricks
Is bdeal what others use?

regards P
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#24 User is offline   tonywuhk 

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Posted 2019-March-15, 23:35

View Postetha, on 2019-March-14, 06:44, said:

how about we transfer to clubs and bid 3! assuming that shows a singleton. I can try to do the sim of 6NT.


I am interested in doing sim on bridge hands. Can you tell me what software do I needed to do so?

Tony
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#25 User is offline   etha 

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Posted 2019-March-16, 03:46

For dbl dummy ones bbo itself has this which I only discovered a few days ago. http://dealergib1.br...aler/dealer.php

I don't have any programming skill and it is easy enough to use.

If you want to analyse hands slightly more realistically I would get hold of Jack. Jack won't play absolutely any system but unless you are trying to do forcing pass or your own version of moscito or strong club it probably has everything you might want except 2 way check back. You can then deal whatever hand shape or auction you like and generate the hands and Jack will either par score them which is just the same as dbl dummy pretty much or you can get jack to play them which he will do with the CC you specify. You can get him to play each hand with several CC's but only at random. Also comparing two CC's is actually hard in that I can't get it to play things twice and then score up automatically. Also in case you want to play the hands your self he can play all the hands and make a tournament out of them which you can play and the boards are scored automatically. Although not perfect this is the best way I can find other people may have found other ways.


Qplus will run up to 1000 hand sims for itself and tell you the imp or match point difference between a number of options. Again it has pretty much every convention u might want unless you are inventing your own. It has slightly more strong club options. It has no moscito or forcing pass options. There is a free demo where you can see this feature.

Jack and Qplus will also play bridge against you and be good enough unless you are close to international standard that the game won't be a waste of time. You need less programming skill with those than the bbo website but they are less flexible. I don't know of any free bots that will be any use.

Also no idea what you can do with gib from BBO itself if you spend money to aquire it. But gib is probably too bad to be useful anyway.
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#26 User is offline   etha 

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Posted 2019-March-16, 03:47

Oh you can buy the original gib if that is still possible from matt Ginsberg and program it yourself and use a script to make it play loads of hands. I did make this work but be warned gib uses an almost incomprehensible method of defining bids.
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#27 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-March-16, 04:33

View Postlamford, on 2019-March-15, 18:23, said:

It is the last thing you want to hear though if the opening leader had the queen of spades, which he would not otherwise lead from. The same goes for bidding 2 which in many systems shows clubs. You are strong enough however, that this is unlikely to be doubled. As for why 4S is Gerber that is because 4C is both majors, 4D is hearts and 4H is spades. I don't like Gerber at all, to be honest and would "punt" 6NT the next time I get this type of hand. I think science often loses.


We can kick off 1N-3 so don't have the double issue anyway.

I don't see why the opening leader doubling spades then being put on lead makes him more likely to lead from KQ. In 6 you may want him to lead one (AJ10x(x), Qxx, Ax, Axx(x) for example where a diamond is the lead you don't want).
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#28 User is offline   tonywuhk 

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Posted 2019-March-16, 11:17

View Postetha, on 2019-March-16, 03:46, said:

For dbl dummy ones bbo itself has this which I only discovered a few days ago. http://dealergib1.br...aler/dealer.php

I don't have any programming skill and it is easy enough to use.

If you want to analyse hands slightly more realistically I would get hold of Jack. Jack won't play absolutely any system but unless you are trying to do forcing pass or your own version of moscito or strong club it probably has everything you might want except 2 way check back. You can then deal whatever hand shape or auction you like and generate the hands and Jack will either par score them which is just the same as dbl dummy pretty much or you can get jack to play them which he will do with the CC you specify. You can get him to play each hand with several CC's but only at random. Also comparing two CC's is actually hard in that I can't get it to play things twice and then score up automatically. Also in case you want to play the hands your self he can play all the hands and make a tournament out of them which you can play and the boards are scored automatically. Although not perfect this is the best way I can find other people may have found other ways.


Qplus will run up to 1000 hand sims for itself and tell you the imp or match point difference between a number of options. Again it has pretty much every convention u might want unless you are inventing your own. It has slightly more strong club options. It has no moscito or forcing pass options. There is a free demo where you can see this feature.

Jack and Qplus will also play bridge against you and be good enough unless you are close to international standard that the game won't be a waste of time. You need less programming skill with those than the bbo website but they are less flexible. I don't know of any free bots that will be any use.

Also no idea what you can do with gib from BBO itself if you spend money to aquire it. But gib is probably too bad to be useful anyway.



Since I prefer something free, I will try the bbo one first. Further, I don't really needed them to play bridge, but to help analysis probability of specific case to see whether some bidding choice is good or bad.

Thanks a lot.

Tony
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#29 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2019-March-16, 14:17

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-March-16, 04:33, said:

We can kick off 1N-3 so don't have the double issue anyway.

I don't see why the opening leader doubling spades then being put on lead makes him more likely to lead from KQ. In 6 you may want him to lead one (AJ10x(x), Qxx, Ax, Axx(x) for example where a diamond is the lead you don't want).

INT-3C was a singleton, so that would not have worked. Any slow auction can get the opponents to make a double which might not be "lead that suit". It might be "don't lead that suit". I wonder if 1NT-6NT-(X) has any mecaning with most pairs. I think it should ask for a spade lead if anything. 6C might be a better contract but finding out will cost. I am not sure who said that you should regret any bids above two in any auction (Michael Rosenberg?), but it was a better player than me.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason. - barmar
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#30 User is offline   tonywuhk 

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Posted 2019-March-17, 11:07

View Postthepossum, on 2019-March-15, 22:35, said:

Hi

Hope people don't mind me adding a post, but its more a case of me trying to understand sims and how my results compare, since I'm fairly new to bridge sims

I did a basic sim (using bdeal) with N semi-balanced and 15-17 points and S with the given hand. No further constraints on EW or leads.

After 2000 hands my percentages were:

Tricks Percentage
9 1.1
10 2.7
11 15.7
12 55.6
13 20.4

Mean tricks were 11.76. Range 5-13 tricks
Is bdeal what others use?

regards P


do you using bbo dealer? how to do the check of tricks percentage?

Tony
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#31 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2019-April-10, 20:13

View Postmiamijd, on 2019-March-15, 16:51, said:

Just as an aside, why are you using 4S as Gerber rather than 4C? Using 4S, you can't sign off at 4NT. What is the gain?

Cheers,
Mike

The gain is having 4C as both majors, either terminal or slam force.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason. - barmar
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#32 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2019-April-11, 13:22

maybe a better question what % of the time would this make 6n opposite 15 16 17 hcp in p hand (ie query each hcp level) also query 15 16 17 with a 5 card suit in partners hand. Also helpful might be how often 6c makes via the same questions. Just a thought.
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