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Incorporating Multi and Tartan into SMP how to bid the precision 2D hand? 4414 or 3415 with short diomonds

#1 User is offline   yasser r 

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Posted 2019-February-08, 09:54

I would like to use multi and tartan bids in an SMP framework. This means that we need to find a way to bid 11-15HCP hands with short diamonds and 4441 or 5431 shape. Can we do better than opening them with 1, which changes the definition of 1 opening from "could be short" to "can be singelton" and the response structure to 1 needs to be changed as well. One idea could be to use a mini roman option (11-15HCP, 4441 any singelton) in multi. this overloads the multi 2, and the 5431 hands still need to be incorporated somewhere.
Looking forward to suggestions from experienced SMP players.
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#2 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2019-February-09, 12:50

I guess by SMP you mean "Standard Modern Precision", AKA "Meckwell Light"? The easiest way, with very minor changes to the system, would be to give up the Tartan 2, and play:

2 = Multi.
2 = 4415 minus one card (the 2 opening i SMP).
2 = Tartan.

In Sweden it is common to play strong club and multi, with 2M available for weak meanings. Then the 2 opening can be a five card suit though (five clubs and a four card major). With 4414 you open 1.

If you want 2 to promise 6+ clubs, and want both Multi and Tartan, I think 1 will be too overloaded. One of the most overloaded 1 openings I know of (in a "serious system") is in F-club, played by Mats Nilsland and Björn Fallenius. It is published and available as an e-book. Excerpt regarding the 1 opening here. Here you can buy the full book: http://www.scaniabri...strongclub.html Their 1 opening can also have 6+ clubs, so even more overloaded.

Another way could be to play a weak no trump (perhaps 12-15 or 11-14) and open stronger balanced hands with 1 (maybe you can use the multi and 2NT for some very strong balanced hands). Now you have removed the balanced hands from 1, which should make continuations easier. A system which does something similar is The Unbalanced Diamond by Marshall Miles, but his 1 opening includes ALL unbalanced hands without a five card major (if I remember correctly). Here's a summary: http://web.mit.edu/m...ced_Diamond.pdf

Yet another way could be to put the balanced range in 1 (12-15 or maybe 11-14, like above) and use an artificial 1NT opening. I guess it depends on if you like opening weak NT or not. So something like this maybe:

1 = Strong.
1 = 12-15 NT, or 6+ diamonds, or a 4 card major and a minor.
1M = 5+ major.
1NT = Both minors.
2 = 6+ clubs.
2 = Multi.
2M = Tartan.

Another option if an unnatural 1NT opening is okay could be to be inspired by the 1 opening awm's IMPrecision: http://www.infobridg...IMprecision.pdf
Then you could use:

1 = Strong.
1 = 12-15 NT, or "three-suited" without a five card major (5431, 4441, or 5440), or 5-5 minors.
1M = 5+ major.
1NT = 6+ diamonds.
2 = 6+ clubs.
2 = Multi.
2M = Tartan.
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#3 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2019-February-09, 18:50

You could play 4-card majors, and then you could switch to Moscito since the 1M openings now need more bidding space. Or you could play Polish Club so that the problem hands go into the 1 opening.

But maybe it's a bit overkill to make such radical changes for such a minor problem.

Other than what Kungsgeten suggests, you could also just pretend that the problem doesn't exist. Just tell the smallest lie. 1NT, 1M or 2 depending on texture. Or pass with 11 points and maybe some 12-counts.
... most of the new ideas I get are pretty "boring", mostly focusing on constructive methods rather than destructive ones --- Kungsgeten
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#4 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2019-February-09, 20:47

View Posthelene_t, on 2019-February-09, 18:50, said:

you could also just pretend that the problem doesn't exist. Just tell the smallest lie. 1NT, 1M or 2 depending on texture. Or pass with 11 points and maybe some 12-counts.

In that spirit, if you open light in 3rd seat (I know SMP isnít a light opening version of precision, but itís no major changes to play the precision non-1 bids as 9-15 instead of 11-15), you could just pass all those troublesome hands entirely. If partner canít open light in 3-4th, you probably wonít miss anything and 4441 hands arenít a super promising shape anyway. I take this a bit farther with my Silent Club strong club system and pass the precision 2 hands as well, but that presumes you want 2 free for a weak or other use.
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#5 User is offline   yasser r 

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Posted 2019-February-10, 04:53

View PostKungsgeten, on 2019-February-09, 12:50, said:

I guess by SMP you mean "Standard Modern Precision", AKA "Meckwell Light"? The easiest way, with very minor changes to the system, would be to give up the Tartan 2, and play:

2 = Multi.
2 = 4415 minus one card (the 2 opening i SMP).
2 = Tartan.

In Sweden it is common to play strong club and multi, with 2M available for weak meanings. Then the 2 opening can be a five card suit though (five clubs and a four card major). With 4414 you open 1.

If you want 2 to promise 6+ clubs, and want both Multi and Tartan, I think 1 will be too overloaded. One of the most overloaded 1 openings I know of (in a "serious system") is in F-club, played by Mats Nilsland and BjŲrn Fallenius. It is published and available as an e-book. Excerpt regarding the 1 opening here. Here you can buy the full book: http://www.scaniabri...strongclub.html Their 1 opening can also have 6+ clubs, so even more overloaded.

Another way could be to play a weak no trump (perhaps 12-15 or 11-14) and open stronger balanced hands with 1 (maybe you can use the multi and 2NT for some very strong balanced hands). Now you have removed the balanced hands from 1, which should make continuations easier. A system which does something similar is The Unbalanced Diamond by Marshall Miles, but his 1 opening includes ALL unbalanced hands without a five card major (if I remember correctly). Here's a summary: http://web.mit.edu/m...ced_Diamond.pdf

Yet another way could be to put the balanced range in 1 (12-15 or maybe 11-14, like above) and use an artificial 1NT opening. I guess it depends on if you like opening weak NT or not. So something like this maybe:

1 = Strong.
1 = 12-15 NT, or 6+ diamonds, or a 4 card major and a minor.
1M = 5+ major.
1NT = Both minors.
2 = 6+ clubs.
2 = Multi.
2M = Tartan.

Another option if an unnatural 1NT opening is okay could be to be inspired by the 1 opening awm's IMPrecision: http://www.infobridg...IMprecision.pdf
Then you could use:

1 = Strong.
1 = 12-15 NT, or "three-suited" without a five card major (5431, 4441, or 5440), or 5-5 minors.
1M = 5+ major.
1NT = 6+ diamonds.
2 = 6+ clubs.
2 = Multi.
2M = Tartan.


Thanks for this detailed reply! Actually, the simplest solution of giving up the Tartan 2 looks the most practical. I'm not a big fan of giving up the natural 1NT, so i guess i will look into more detail of the problems associated with overloading 1 to keep the natural 1NT and add multi and the 2M 2 suiters to SMP(Yes! i mean 'standard modern precision').
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#6 User is offline   yasser r 

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Posted 2019-February-10, 04:58

View Postrbforster, on 2019-February-09, 20:47, said:

In that spirit, if you open light in 3rd seat (I know SMP isnít a light opening version of precision, but itís no major changes to play the precision non-1 bids as 9-15 instead of 11-15), you could just pass all those troublesome hands entirely. If partner canít open light in 3-4th, you probably wonít miss anything and 4441 hands arenít a super promising shape anyway. I take this a bit farther with my Silent Club strong club system and pass the precision 2 hands as well, but that presumes you want 2 free for a weak or other use.

I'm OK with passing the 11,12 counts but passing the 13,14,15 counts would be too radical IMHO.
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#7 User is offline   yasser r 

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Posted 2019-February-10, 05:01

View Posthelene_t, on 2019-February-09, 18:50, said:

You could play 4-card majors, and then you could switch to Moscito since the 1M openings now need more bidding space. Or you could play Polish Club so that the problem hands go into the 1 opening.

But maybe it's a bit overkill to make such radical changes for such a minor problem.

Other than what Kungsgeten suggests, you could also just pretend that the problem doesn't exist. Just tell the smallest lie. 1NT, 1M or 2 depending on texture. Or pass with 11 points and maybe some 12-counts.

Passing the 11,12 counts with the 4414 shape is excellent bridge IMHO. However, the 4315 shape is more promising, and so are the 4414 hands with 13-15 HCP. I'll dive into this a bit deeper. Thanks for your great suggestions helene_t.
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2019-February-10, 16:06

View Postrbforster, on 2019-February-09, 20:47, said:

In that spirit, if you open light in 3rd seat (I know SMP isnít a light opening version of precision, but itís no major changes to play the precision non-1 bids as 9-15 instead of 11-15), you could just pass all those troublesome hands entirely. If partner canít open light in 3-4th, you probably wonít miss anything and 4441 hands arenít a super promising shape anyway. I take this a bit farther with my Silent Club strong club system and pass the precision 2 hands as well, but that presumes you want 2 free for a weak or other use.

Ha-ha, there was a junior pair at the Leeds Congress a few years ago that played the "only green cards in my box" system. They scored some 65%.

One advantage of that system is that you don't need to practice bidding and declarer play so you can focus 100% on developing your defense :)
... most of the new ideas I get are pretty "boring", mostly focusing on constructive methods rather than destructive ones --- Kungsgeten
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