[heart76]

miamijd, on 2018-July-17, 16:02, said:

3S is exactly the sort of hand East has.

But what is it: a preempt or a descriptive bid?
I'm asking because I believe it doesn't achieve either!

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1sp here would be a free bid, so it's a great 5 to 8 or so (instead of 0-bad 8).

Agree, but 1S promises 4 cards. With 6 and a bad hand you can safely bid 1S here.
It is MUCH better than 3S, cause if your pd than raises S you can than safely raise to 3 or 4 as you have denied 8+ points. If your pd passes or bids a suit of his own, the picture changes.

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Your partner has Xed a 1d opener; how many spades do you expect him to have? At least 3, likely 4, right? So the LOTT says get to the three level now and describe your hand in one fell swoop. Textbook.

I'm sorry but when you say "expect" and "textbook" you are assuming pd does not have a strong one-suiter and you are trying to place a LoTT bid in the replies to a TOX.
Btw, one fundamental prerequisite of the "wrap-up" LoTT rule (bid UP to the level of the number of trumps in your line) is that opponents actually have a fit.
Do they?

[Grommet1]

I remember a MSC problem that explored when to begin with a takeout double versus a simple overcall. One of the panelists said that you should begin with the overcall "whenever you can get away with it." The worst thing that happens if you overcall 1♥ here is that you play 1 ♥making four, take your minus 5 or 6 IMPS and move on to the next hand. There are a number of ways that beginning with a double can go wrong, including this nightmare. I think East's 4♠bid and subsequent behavior are good reasons to use the enemy button.

[Cyberyeti]

heart76, on 2018-July-18, 11:21, said:

I'm sorry but when you say "expect" and "textbook" you are assuming pd does not have a strong one-suiter and you are trying to place a LoTT bid in the replies to a TOX.
Btw, one fundamental prerequisite of the "wrap-up" LoTT rule (bid UP to the level of the number of trumps in your line) is that opponents actually have a fit.
Do they?

No, "expect" should be taken as "expect if minimum", partner is making the right bid assuming you have a 12 count with 3-4 spades. You need extra strength to double without this, and the less spades you have, the more you need to double.

[miamijd]

heart76, on 2018-July-18, 11:21, said:

But what is it: a preempt or a descriptive bid?
I'm asking because I believe it doesn't achieve either!

***It's both, and it does both. Probably 6 semi-decent spades and not much else. A good description of your hand, and a bid that gets you to the correct level (you hope) at once.

Agree, but 1S promises 4 cards. With 6 and a bad hand you can safely bid 1S here.
It is MUCH better than 3S, cause if your pd than raises S you can than safely raise to 3 or 4 as you have denied 8+ points. If your pd passes or bids a suit of his own, the picture changes.

*** No, it's not better than 3S; it's not nearly as good (though I see I won't convince you of that). Your partner has Xed a 1m opener; the next player has bid 1H; and you have a H void. How many hearts do you expect partner to have? Four? So the opponents have a 9-fit in H and you have a 9-fit in spades. Isn't it better to tell partner exactly what your hand is and let the opponents guess what to do? Or do you want to have the last guess?

I'm sorry but when you say "expect" and "textbook" you are assuming pd does not have a strong one-suiter and you are trying to place a LoTT bid in the replies to a TOX.
Btw, one fundamental prerequisite of the "wrap-up" LoTT rule (bid UP to the level of the number of trumps in your line) is that opponents actually have a fit.
Do they?

*** They certainly rate to have a fit on this auction, don't you think? How many hearts do you have? Zero; so the opponents have a 9-fit unless partner has a single-suited hand with hearts. That's possible, but pretty unlikely. In this case, he does, but if he has that hand, he has to be prepared to deal with bids like 3S. Here, he would have bid 4H without the intervening 1H bid, but with it, he can try 3NT.

And yes, when you respond to a double, you must assume partner has a typical minimum double, not the strong one-suiter type. If he has the strong one-suiter, then he'll have to do the best he can.

Incidentally, dealing with bids like 3S is another reason to bid 1H or 4H on this hand rather than X (not saying X is wrong; it's reasonable).

Cheers,
Mike