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CAPTYOGI 's CLUB 1C (18+) and Response 1D (7+ Game Zone )

#21 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-April-21, 09:31

so ask them. i m sure will say they doesn't promise much in terms of values/hcp overcalling on shape

Yes partially sarcastic. Is disclosure issue not alert issue.

Presumably you alerting as artificial so up to opponents to ask to find pt range.
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#22 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-April-22, 17:29

Disclosure. Sure will disclose that overcall could be based on shape not HCP. You still don't know for sure what we have. That's the point if your methods only guarantee hcp and our methods only show shape. It is know on average the 1 side will have more hcp on average.

It will still be difficult to decide whether to stop and penalize or find own best spot. Meanwhile your space for finding your spot will be reduced. At MP especially that is all we desire.
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#23 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-April-23, 03:50

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-April-22, 17:29, said:

Disclosure. Sure will disclose that overcall could be based on shape not HCP. You still don't know for sure what we have. That's the point if your methods only guarantee hcp and our methods only show shape. It is know on average the 1 side will have more hcp on average.

It will still be difficult to decide whether to stop and penalize or find own best spot. Meanwhile your space for finding your spot will be reduced. At MP especially that is all we desire.


Steve, absolutely no one cares that your overcalls only show shape.

The real issue, which you dodge over and over again is that you are not able to provide appropriate disclosure of your methods.

I raised a bunch of questions a page or so back...
I am still waiting for anything approaching a comprehensible answer.
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#24 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-May-19, 17:51

View Posthrothgar, on 2018-April-20, 03:17, said:

1. There is an enormous difference between "People overcall on crap" and "Failure to provide appropriate disclosure".

2. You seem to be claiming some right to play completely random overcalls over this system. OK... sure... I just have a couple followup questions

A. When you say that you are overcalling completely at random, do you mean that you are drawing from a uniform distribution?

B. If so, when was the last time that you happened to overcall 7NT? If your overcalls are uniformly distributed, a 7NT overcall should be just as likely as a 1!S overcall. If you can't recall this particular bid, memorable that it is, anything at the 7 level will do...

C. Now, perhaps that you've decided that your overcalls aren't uniformly distributed... Instead you assign some probability to various bids such that you bid 1!S with a probability of 10%, 2!H with a probability of 5%, ...

In this case, I'd like to know What is the shape of that probability density function? And, can I please set a set of hands where you are making these random overcalls such that I can make sure that what you claim to be playing is consistent with what you are playing. And, oh yes, is there any kind of relationship between the particular shape of a hand that you get dealt and th bids that you choose to make because in my experience, if someone claims the be playing "random" overcalls, their 1!S overcall will either had spade length or spade shortage by not something in between.

D. Last, but not least, people are really miserable at generating random numbers. How are you generating the entropy that you need to for such a system?

At a more basic level, even if you think that you are playing a system based on random overcalls, you're almost certainly not. You parter is going to be able to pick up on stuff, and this creates a Concealed Partnership Understanding.

You misunderstand. I meant overcalling without showing your suits not randomly overcalling. Something like crash and suction.
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