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Partnership Communication

#1 User is offline   alphred 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 12:30

A profile for a player on BBO can't say everything.
If for instance my partner during a game asks 4NT (Blackwood) and I have all four aces, I will answer 5 Clubs and add in the chat space "0 or 4 aces" to ensure, that he understands me. Often the opponents protest:"No conversation between partners!".
But in "real life" partner knows what you mean.
So to approximate play on BBO to "real life", I'll continue to explain my bids to partner where it seems appropriate.
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#2 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 14:41

View Postalphred, on 2018-March-25, 12:30, said:

A profile for a player on BBO can't say everything.
If for instance my partner during a game asks 4NT (Blackwood) and I have all four aces, I will answer 5 Clubs and add in the chat space "0 or 4 aces" to ensure, that he understands me. Often the opponents protest:"No conversation between partners!".

You shouldn't do this, it's a violation of the Laws of bridge and your opponents do well to protest.
Under BBO rules, you should self-Alert that explanation to the opponents instead.

But yes, in all these years BBO could have done better at matching player systems than just offering a tweet sized profile and a guess about what partner is thinking.
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#3 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 14:50

You can actually fill something out that appears as a link in your profile called your favourite convention. Almost nobody uses it.
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#4 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 18:06

Most people put "RKC" or "1430" in their profiles if that's what they want to play.

#5 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 18:31

View Postpescetom, on 2018-March-25, 14:41, said:

You shouldn't do this, it's a violation of the Laws of bridge and your opponents do well to protest.
Under BBO rules, you should self-Alert that explanation to the opponents instead.

In a BBO tournament, sure. When playing in the MBC, with unknown partners, I disagree and agree with the OP. Why risk ruining the board entirely by guessing, incorrectly, what form of Blackwood your partner plays? It's not like it will be a one-off; you guess wrong, your partner will probably leave the table, and you begin all over again with the next one.

You can have some information in your profile (but then they might too - do you assume they're playing your profile? you're playing theirs?), but for casual MBC games, it's pointless trying to agree every convention in advance.
Feel free to send me a friend challenge of any format as often as you like. I'll always accept :)
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#6 User is offline   alphred 

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Posted 2018-March-26, 02:10

Thank you for the comments.
In a "real life" tournament the opponents have a right to know what your bid means. Partner is supposed to know.
Bridge in the MBC on BBO is another game.
The size of the profile doesn't give much room for details.
Free communication (visible to the opponents) approximates the game to real life bridge.
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#7 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-March-26, 08:19

View Postalphred, on 2018-March-26, 02:10, said:

Thank you for the comments.
In a "real life" tournament the opponents have a right to know what your bid means. Partner is supposed to know.
Bridge in the MBC on BBO is another game.

Right. In real life you don't usually just sit down with a random partner and start playing with no discussion. Even if you meet at the Partnership Desk, you usually have at least 15 minutes to make a convention card.

#8 User is offline   alphred 

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Posted 2018-March-26, 08:53

The Laws of Bridge were made before the Internet came around.
In "real life" a player is not allowed to look at his side's convention card during the game. The convention card is only for the opponents.
In the MBC you can see your partner's convention card.
BBO is against the Laws of Bridge.
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#9 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-March-26, 12:46

View Postalphred, on 2018-March-26, 08:53, said:

The Laws of Bridge were made before the Internet came around.
In "real life" a player is not allowed to look at his side's convention card during the game. The convention card is only for the opponents.
In the MBC you can see your partner's convention card.
BBO is against the Laws of Bridge.

Not being allowed to look at your own convention card during the bidding (you are allowed to look when it matters, during clarification when not defending) is arguably a poor law, maybe BBO anticipates the future, but in any case this is not an important difference IMO. The real problems are elsewhere.

The Laws of Bridge don't need much change to work in internet, whereas internet Bridge applications do still need significant change to respect the spirit of the Laws in a context of random partnerships. Writing "0314" in your profile will never resolve things when your partner might have written "0413" and there is no mechanism to decide which prevails, for example.
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#10 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2018-March-26, 14:33

View Postalphred, on 2018-March-25, 12:30, said:

A profile for a player on BBO can't say everything.
If for instance my partner during a game asks 4NT (Blackwood) and I have all four aces, I will answer 5 Clubs and add in the chat space "0 or 4 aces" to ensure, that he understands me. Often the opponents protest:"No conversation between partners!".
But in "real life" partner knows what you mean.
So to approximate play on BBO to "real life", I'll continue to explain my bids to partner where it seems appropriate.


It's just a reality of playing pickup, and I would always allow this as your opponent. It's the internet; don't take it too seriously if someone gets offended.
Videos of the worst bridge player ever playing bridge:
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#11 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2018-March-26, 14:48

Is the player profile used to list system and methods? Why are convention cards not available?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#12 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-March-27, 09:16

View PostVampyr, on 2018-March-26, 14:48, said:

Is the player profile used to list system and methods? Why are convention cards not available?

They are, but people don't use them for playing with pickups. The profile is easier to read for a quick summary of someone's general methods.

For instance, every round in an indy you have about 10 seconds to look at your partner's preferred conentions before someone chats "pls bid". Do you really think you could scan through a convention card in that time?

#13 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2018-March-27, 10:27

View Postbarmar, on 2018-March-27, 09:16, said:

They are, but people don't use them for playing with pickups. The profile is easier to read for a quick summary of someone's general methods.

For instance, every round in an indy you have about 10 seconds to look at your partner's preferred conentions before someone chats "pls bid". Do you really think you could scan through a convention card in that time?


You would not have to scan it, just refer to it when it is your turn. But I think that for an individual everyone should be using he same cad anyway, just like in real life.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#14 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-March-27, 10:47

View Postkuhchung, on 2018-March-26, 14:33, said:

It's just a reality of playing pickup, and I would always allow this as your opponent. It's the internet; don't take it too seriously if someone gets offended.

I would be happy if an opp said "Partner, I am playing your profile" - that's a cue that the bid is conventional, but nothing more, and it solves some problems.
I would live with it if she announced a convention feature such as "asks for Queen" following a key-card reply.
I would complain if she announced a jump response as "weak" or "strong", for instance.
But it would be better not to have to make such choices.
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#15 User is offline   alphred 

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Posted 2018-April-10, 09:17

In "real life" players can consult the Convention Cards (Profiles)of the opposing pair. On BBO, if the profile (very short) does not explain the meaning of a bid, an opposing player must have the right to ask questions.
Examples: "Is it a weak jump shift?" or "Is it Blackwood or RKC 1430?".
Opps have a right to know.
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#16 User is offline   OldPlayr 

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Posted 2018-April-10, 11:53

Would you prefer that they use a chat tool outside of BBO? I suspect that outside chat is not uncommon on BBO.
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#17 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-April-11, 08:24

View Postalphred, on 2018-April-10, 09:17, said:

In "real life" players can consult the Convention Cards (Profiles)of the opposing pair. On BBO, if the profile (very short) does not explain the meaning of a bid, an opposing player must have the right to ask questions.
Examples: "Is it a weak jump shift?" or "Is it Blackwood or RKC 1430?".
Opps have a right to know.

This is all true, but not really relevant to this thread. We're talking here about partners talking to each other, not to the opponents.

#18 User is offline   alphred 

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Posted 2018-April-11, 12:50

In this thread I'm talking about approximating play in the open rooms on BBO to play at the tables in the Club. Pairs in the Club normally have agreed on a system. They have written the important points in the Convention Card. In case of insufficient information the opponents may ask.
No guessing there, as on BBO, with an insufficiently known partner and new opponents with insufficient profiles.
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#19 User is offline   alphred 

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Posted 2018-April-11, 13:06

I would not prefer that they use a chat tool outside of BBO. But I don't worry about it. I play against best defence.
And I prefer "inside chat tools", within the borders of the Convention Card.
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