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GIB bids wrong suit in response to reopening double

#1 User is offline   wbartley 

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Posted 2018-March-17, 16:01

Just play bridge robot. Human South.



Something definitely awry here.
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#2 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-March-17, 16:11

There is definitely a problem with Gib responding to a takeout double.
I had a hand where i made a takeout double. Gib had a 4 card major with enough values to jump.
It cuebid. So i had to guess what to bid next. Gib was a passed hand so it wasn't huge. Simple jumping in its 4 card major would have shown it's whole hand.

There are numerous hands where you have to beg to find out that Gib has a 4-card major.
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#3 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-March-17, 20:11

At least GIB didn't bid 4 holding a 5 card major. Well done GIB (the fact that GIB didn't have a 5 card major doesn't diminish GIB's accomplishment).
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#4 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2018-March-18, 07:25

View Postjohnu, on 2018-March-17, 20:11, said:

At least GIB didn't bid 4 holding a 5 card major. Well done GIB (the fact that GIB didn't have a 5 card major doesn't diminish GIB's accomplishment).

i have found with GIBBO open almost all - perhaps all - 12 hcp hands so i question the initial pass with 12 hcp.
open 11 if a stiff. open 10 if two 5 card suits.
above has worked well.

in GIB's addled mind 3H would be VERY weak. Can't jump to 4H so it does a mark time at the 4-level.
i am almost with globby on this one.

vrock
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#5 User is offline   wbartley 

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Posted 2018-March-18, 10:49

View Postvirgosrock, on 2018-March-18, 07:25, said:

i have found with GIBBO open almost all - perhaps all - 12 hcp hands so i question the initial pass with 12 hcp.
open 11 if a stiff. open 10 if two 5 card suits.
above has worked well.

in GIB's addled mind 3H would be VERY weak. Can't jump to 4H so it does a mark time at the 4-level.
i am almost with globby on this one.

vrock


I see. So, give South Jxxx AQxx x Kxxx in first seat. Now the bidding goes, P-3-P-P-Dbl-P and you think GIB should bid 4?

You don't like South's bidding. That's fine. I just gave you a hand that is closer to what you think is appropriate. Did North's 4 bid just get better or worse?

How about AJTx Qxxx x Kxxx? Does 4 seem about right to you?

I have an idea. Why don't YOU show me a hand where the auction should go P-3-P-P-Dbl with North holding the given hand and where 4 is the correct bid.
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#6 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2018-March-18, 11:01

View Postwbartley, on 2018-March-18, 10:49, said:

I see. So, give South Jxxx AQxx x Kxxx in first seat. Now the bidding goes, P-3-P-P-Dbl-P and you think GIB should bid 4?

You don't like South's bidding. That's fine. I just gave you a hand that is closer to what you think is appropriate. Did North's 4 bid just get better or worse?

How about AJTx Qxxx x Kxxx? Does 4 seem about right to you?

I have an idea. Why don't YOU show me a hand where the auction should go P-3-P-P-Dbl with North holding the given hand and where 4 is the correct bid.

sorry, i don't respond to a confrontational tone.

vrock
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#7 User is offline   wbartley 

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Posted 2018-March-18, 12:50

View Postvirgosrock, on 2018-March-18, 11:01, said:

sorry, i don't respond to a confrontational tone.

vrock


I'm merely pointing out that your critique of the opening pass is not relevant to the discussion. My question stands. Can you show me a hand that you think is consistent with South's bidding where 4 is the correct call by North because this is the GIB forum where we attempt to contribute to the improvement of GIB's bidding.
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#8 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-March-18, 19:29

View Postvirgosrock, on 2018-March-18, 07:25, said:

in GIB's addled mind 3H would be VERY weak. Can't jump to 4H so it does a mark time at the 4-level.
i am almost with globby on this one.

vrock


Yikes :o
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#9 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2018-March-19, 01:12

View Postvirgosrock, on 2018-March-18, 07:25, said:

Can't jump to 4H so it does a mark time at the 4-level.
i am almost with globby on this one.

vrock

Marking time with a non-forcing bid doesn't really work.
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#10 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2018-March-19, 11:28

View Postgordontd, on 2018-March-19, 01:12, said:

Marking time with a non-forcing bid doesn't really work.

what do you responders to this email thread recommend?

vrock
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#11 User is offline   jeigh 

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Posted 2018-March-19, 15:16

With the caveat that I'm likely the least qualified person here to contribute ... I recommend GOOBER stop considering 3H very weak. You already have no room to move due to the pre-empt. What kind of dumb system forces partnership to game opposite a balancing double from a weak 3 opener when the doubler is a passed hand? Just dumb. Bid the 4-carders up the line, especially if your easiest bid is a major.
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#12 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2018-March-19, 18:10

This is one of those silly scenarios where GIB describes the responses as follows:

3: 4+, 20- total points
3: 4+, 20- total points
4: 4+, 20- total points

Obviously, telling partner you have 20 or less total points isn't really that helpful. Why on earth it chooses 4 over 3, who knows.

Incidentally, give GIB the same shape and no points (probably not possible on the auction, but anyway), it will bid 3. It will continue to bid 3 with 4 hearts and 5 clubs and no points.

Yet it's not like 4 is showing points, since give it 5 clubs and 3 hearts and 0 points, and it will still bid 4 as expected.

And just to cover all cases, swap the 6 of clubs for the 6 of spades in the original hand, and it will bid 3. So not like it thinks 3 is weak either.

Overall, just nonsense.
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#13 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2018-March-21, 04:56

View Postsmerriman, on 2018-March-19, 18:10, said:

This is one of those silly scenarios where GIB describes the responses as follows:

3: 4+, 20- total points
3: 4+, 20- total points
4: 4+, 20- total points

Obviously, telling partner you have 20 or less total points isn't really that helpful. Why on earth it chooses 4 over 3, who knows.

Incidentally, give GIB the same shape and no points (probably not possible on the auction, but anyway), it will bid 3. It will continue to bid 3 with 4 hearts and 5 clubs and no points.

Yet it's not like 4 is showing points, since give it 5 clubs and 3 hearts and 0 points, and it will still bid 4 as expected.

And just to cover all cases, swap the 6 of clubs for the 6 of spades in the original hand, and it will bid 3. So not like it thinks 3 is weak either.

Overall, just nonsense.


where would a pass by gibby stand in the scheme of things?

vrock
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#14 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2018-March-21, 05:33

View Postvirgosrock, on 2018-March-18, 07:25, said:

i have found with GIBBO open almost all - perhaps all - 12 hcp hands so i question the initial pass with 12 hcp.

A GiB 1 opening:

QJ2
QJ2
QJ2
QJ32.
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#15 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2018-March-21, 06:26

View Postnullve, on 2018-March-21, 05:33, said:

A GiB 1 opening:

QJ2
QJ2
QJ2
QJ32.


of course haha. 12 hcp. case closed.

vrock
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#16 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2018-March-23, 10:31

Bidding minors ahead of majors responding to takeout doubles has proved surprisingly difficult to fix (and frustrating from my perspective). It's not like you can just fix "take-out doubles", you have to fix it for each auction. It's an ongoing project.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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