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Strength? Check. Balanced? Check. Stop? Erm...

#1 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 04:38

IMPs, opps are vul, you're not



2H = weak with 5 hearts and at least 4 of any other suit (though won't be 5-5 majors). What's your call?

If you double, pass from LHO, partner bids 2S, pass from RHO. You haven't agreed to play Lebensohl here. What next?

ahydra
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#2 User is online   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 04:55

I bid 2NT.

I'm happy to value it down slightly and not going to lose sleep over the fractional stop.
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#3 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-March-15, 09:38

View Postahydra, on 2018-March-14, 04:38, said:


IMPs, opps are vul, you're not
2H = weak with 5 hearts and at least 4 of any other suit (though won't be 5-5 majors). What's your call?
If you double, pass from LHO, partner bids 2S, pass from RHO. You haven't agreed to play Lebensohl here. What next?

Difficult choice :( I rank
  • Double = T/O. Off-shape but reasonable.
  • 2N = NAT. Pity to go minus but Ahydra's choice does get your strong hand off your chest,
  • Pass = NAT. Good prospects of a plus-score.

After (2) X (Pass) 2 (Pass) ??, the choice is still difficult. I rank
  • Pass = NAT. Timid. You might regret your failure to bid 2N on the previous round.
  • 2N = NAT. Still risky but LHO didn't raise
  • 3 = CUE. Risky.

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#4 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2018-March-16, 06:40

2NT just seems wrong without a stop. Double seems better as the strength compensates for the lack of shape. You're opposite a passed partner and if the opponents have AKQ 3NT is a hopeless contract, especially from your side of the table.
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#5 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2018-March-16, 15:33

This was the full hand:



I (North) might have offered 3NT rather than 4S but honestly didn't expect a raise on 3 cards. 3NT makes in practice - I asked "what would you lead" and East said "top heart" rather than a small one. That's also what happened at the other table, so we lost a big swing.

ahydra
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#6 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2018-March-17, 13:50

Leading a top heart against 3Nt seems just awful.
Obviously we have a recall bias in favour of the assholes. -helene_t
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#7 User is offline   heart76 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 04:24

View Postahydra, on 2018-March-14, 04:38, said:

IMPs, opps are vul, you're not



2H = weak with 5 hearts and at least 4 of any other suit (though won't be 5-5 majors). What's your call?

If you double, pass from LHO, partner bids 2S, pass from RHO. You haven't agreed to play Lebensohl here. What next?

ahydra


X. Does not promise 4 in a good hand.
After pass - 2, since W didn't bid 3, either he is too weak or he has 2 or less.
In either case, 3 seems right now. It should also show exactly what we have: stronger than 15/16 HCP, no 5 card suit, probably less than 4 , unless in a monster hand.
If partner has Qxx in should bid 3NT, knowing you are probably looking for a half stop in the suit.
If he bids a side 4+ cards suit, I go for 4 with 7.
Optimistic?
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#8 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 11:23

View Postahydra, on 2018-March-16, 15:33, said:

This was the full hand:



I (North) might have offered 3NT rather than 4S but honestly didn't expect a raise on 3 cards. 3NT makes in practice - I asked "what would you lead" and East said "top heart" rather than a small one. That's also what happened at the other table, so we lost a big swing.

ahydra


You should bid 3 NT. And you should expect a 3 card raise more often. Whats is pd suppose to bid with 3244 and 18-20 hcp and no stopper? And you had all the clues you needed that he has a big hand. Lefty opens weak 2, other opponent is silent which means pd has at least 2 hearts.
Despite the fact that 3 NT is also down due to 5 card weak 2 instead of 6 cards, I think 4 is worse holding Qxx vs Jxx in their weak 2 suit, even with a 4-4 spade fit.
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#9 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 20:31

View PostMrAce, on 2018-March-25, 11:23, said:

You should bid 3 NT. And you should expect a 3 card raise more often. Whats is pd suppose to bid with 3244 and 18-20 hcp and no stopper?

3 (stopper ask). Not that I disagree with you that 3NT is a more accurate call than 4.

Quote

Despite the fact that 3 NT is also down due to 5 card weak 2 instead of 6 cards, I think 4 is worse holding Qxx vs Jxx in their weak 2 suit, even with a 4-4 spade fit.


It was a Lucas/Muiderberg-style two (5H 4+m) as noted in the OP.

ahydra
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#10 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 21:39

View Postahydra, on 2018-March-25, 20:31, said:

3 (stopper ask). Not that I disagree with you that 3NT is a more accurate call than 4.

ahydra


3 after double is GF, 18-20 hcp is not a GF hand vs a 2 bidder who is also coming from pass.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#11 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 23:49

I don't see any reason 3H has to be GF and not include 18+ with 3 only spades. If advancer is broke can bid 3s I don't see why you can't pass 3s.

Practically across preempt you are supposed to assume partner have on average 7 pt or so, and try to bid your game when have 18-20 pts. Sometimes partner is going to be very weak and only have heart stopper and a tad more, bid 3nt and you go down, and maybe LHO double you now, that's life. But to me it's same after RHO open 3M, 18-20 pt you often have to just overcall 3nt and if partner is broke you are also in trouble.
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#12 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2018-March-31, 21:02

X over 2H is normal. I feel pretty strongly that passing 2S is the best choice. Of course it's possible you miss game, but your hand has no source of tricks and a very bad heart holding, even when partner has say 8 points you could easily go down in game, or you could have a hard time getting to the right game (as happened here), and it's important to remember that this is not a weak 2H, this is a hearts + minor which means things are more likely to break poorly (especially if their opener promised 5-5, I know they werent 5-5 on this hand but red/white second seat I'd guess they would not have a crappy 5-4 so 5-5 is still more likely than if they were w/r).

This hand is a pretty good illustration, if you don't pass and you get to the right contract, you buy an 8 count with good spots/well fitting, a heart stopper, the opponent is 5-4-2-2 (so no bad breaks), and game is not very good considering the auction (you need either a spade hook or the 2H bidder to have Hxxxx of hearts). I wouldn't worry if they say they'd lead a high heart from HHxxx lol, you should strive to try to get to the best contracts.
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