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Strength? Check. Balanced? Check. Stop? Erm...

#1 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 04:38

IMPs, opps are vul, you're not



2H = weak with 5 hearts and at least 4 of any other suit (though won't be 5-5 majors). What's your call?

If you double, pass from LHO, partner bids 2S, pass from RHO. You haven't agreed to play Lebensohl here. What next?

ahydra
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#2 User is online   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 04:55

I bid 2NT.

I'm happy to value it down slightly and not going to lose sleep over the fractional stop.
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#3 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-March-15, 09:38

View Postahydra, on 2018-March-14, 04:38, said:


IMPs, opps are vul, you're not
2H = weak with 5 hearts and at least 4 of any other suit (though won't be 5-5 majors). What's your call?
If you double, pass from LHO, partner bids 2S, pass from RHO. You haven't agreed to play Lebensohl here. What next?

Difficult choice :( I rank
  • Double = T/O. Off-shape but reasonable.
  • 2N = NAT. Pity to go minus but Ahydra's choice does get your strong hand off your chest,
  • Pass = NAT. Good prospects of a plus-score.

After (2) X (Pass) 2 (Pass) ??, the choice is still difficult. I rank
  • Pass = NAT. Timid. You might regret your failure to bid 2N on the previous round.
  • 2N = NAT. Still risky but LHO didn't raise
  • 3 = CUE. Risky.

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#4 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2018-March-16, 06:40

2NT just seems wrong without a stop. Double seems better as the strength compensates for the lack of shape. You're opposite a passed partner and if the opponents have AKQ 3NT is a hopeless contract, especially from your side of the table.
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#5 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2018-March-16, 15:33

This was the full hand:



I (North) might have offered 3NT rather than 4S but honestly didn't expect a raise on 3 cards. 3NT makes in practice - I asked "what would you lead" and East said "top heart" rather than a small one. That's also what happened at the other table, so we lost a big swing.

ahydra
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#6 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2018-March-17, 13:50

Leading a top heart against 3Nt seems just awful.
Obviously we have a recall bias in favour of the assholes. -helene_t
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#7 User is offline   heart76 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 04:24

View Postahydra, on 2018-March-14, 04:38, said:

IMPs, opps are vul, you're not



2H = weak with 5 hearts and at least 4 of any other suit (though won't be 5-5 majors). What's your call?

If you double, pass from LHO, partner bids 2S, pass from RHO. You haven't agreed to play Lebensohl here. What next?

ahydra


X. Does not promise 4 in a good hand.
After pass - 2, since W didn't bid 3, either he is too weak or he has 2 or less.
In either case, 3 seems right now. It should also show exactly what we have: stronger than 15/16 HCP, no 5 card suit, probably less than 4 , unless in a monster hand.
If partner has Qxx in should bid 3NT, knowing you are probably looking for a half stop in the suit.
If he bids a side 4+ cards suit, I go for 4 with 7.
Optimistic?
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#8 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 11:23

View Postahydra, on 2018-March-16, 15:33, said:

This was the full hand:



I (North) might have offered 3NT rather than 4S but honestly didn't expect a raise on 3 cards. 3NT makes in practice - I asked "what would you lead" and East said "top heart" rather than a small one. That's also what happened at the other table, so we lost a big swing.

ahydra


You should bid 3 NT. And you should expect a 3 card raise more often. Whats is pd suppose to bid with 3244 and 18-20 hcp and no stopper? And you had all the clues you needed that he has a big hand. Lefty opens weak 2, other opponent is silent which means pd has at least 2 hearts.
Despite the fact that 3 NT is also down due to 5 card weak 2 instead of 6 cards, I think 4 is worse holding Qxx vs Jxx in their weak 2 suit, even with a 4-4 spade fit.
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#9 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 20:31

View PostMrAce, on 2018-March-25, 11:23, said:

You should bid 3 NT. And you should expect a 3 card raise more often. Whats is pd suppose to bid with 3244 and 18-20 hcp and no stopper?

3 (stopper ask). Not that I disagree with you that 3NT is a more accurate call than 4.

Quote

Despite the fact that 3 NT is also down due to 5 card weak 2 instead of 6 cards, I think 4 is worse holding Qxx vs Jxx in their weak 2 suit, even with a 4-4 spade fit.


It was a Lucas/Muiderberg-style two (5H 4+m) as noted in the OP.

ahydra
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#10 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 21:39

View Postahydra, on 2018-March-25, 20:31, said:

3 (stopper ask). Not that I disagree with you that 3NT is a more accurate call than 4.

ahydra


3 after double is GF, 18-20 hcp is not a GF hand vs a 2 bidder who is also coming from pass.
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#11 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2018-March-25, 23:49

I don't see any reason 3H has to be GF and not include 18+ with 3 only spades. If advancer is broke can bid 3s I don't see why you can't pass 3s.

Practically across preempt you are supposed to assume partner have on average 7 pt or so, and try to bid your game when have 18-20 pts. Sometimes partner is going to be very weak and only have heart stopper and a tad more, bid 3nt and you go down, and maybe LHO double you now, that's life. But to me it's same after RHO open 3M, 18-20 pt you often have to just overcall 3nt and if partner is broke you are also in trouble.
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#12 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2018-March-31, 21:02

X over 2H is normal. I feel pretty strongly that passing 2S is the best choice. Of course it's possible you miss game, but your hand has no source of tricks and a very bad heart holding, even when partner has say 8 points you could easily go down in game, or you could have a hard time getting to the right game (as happened here), and it's important to remember that this is not a weak 2H, this is a hearts + minor which means things are more likely to break poorly (especially if their opener promised 5-5, I know they werent 5-5 on this hand but red/white second seat I'd guess they would not have a crappy 5-4 so 5-5 is still more likely than if they were w/r).

This hand is a pretty good illustration, if you don't pass and you get to the right contract, you buy an 8 count with good spots/well fitting, a heart stopper, the opponent is 5-4-2-2 (so no bad breaks), and game is not very good considering the auction (you need either a spade hook or the 2H bidder to have Hxxxx of hearts). I wouldn't worry if they say they'd lead a high heart from HHxxx lol, you should strive to try to get to the best contracts.
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