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What should I have bid? Bidding after a weak 2

#1 User is offline   Louisa79 

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Posted 2018-March-13, 19:24

Hi,
I had a tricky hand to bid on and want to know what I should have done.
I was sitting South.
Dealer was East and bid 2S (weak 2). My partner (North) passed. West bid 3S.
My hand was 14 points:

: 8
♥ A K Q 3 2
♦ A J 10 9 8 7
♣ 6

What should I have bid?

Cheers!
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#2 User is offline   spotlight7 

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Posted 2018-March-13, 19:53

View PostLouisa79, on 2018-March-13, 19:24, said:

Hi,
I had a tricky hand to bid on and want to know what I should have done.
I was sitting South.
Dealer was East and bid 2S (weak 2). My partner (North) passed. West bid 3S.
My hand was 14 points:

: 8
♥ A K Q 3 2
♦ A J 10 9 8 7
♣ 6

What should I have bid?

Cheers!


Leaping Michaels and Non Leaping Michaels show a good 5-5+ type hand.

2S-4 minor shows Hs plus the bid minor.

After 3S-4D* would show 5+H and 5+Ds as a possible bid.


You do wish to discuss these bids with partner ahead of time.
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#3 User is offline   Louisa79 

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Posted 2018-March-13, 20:06

View Postspotlight7, on 2018-March-13, 19:53, said:

Leaping Michaels and Non Leaping Michaels show a good 5-5+ type hand.

2S-4 minor shows Hs plus the bid minor.

After 3S-4D* would show 5+H and 5+Ds as a possible bid.


You do wish to discuss these bids with partner ahead of time.


Thanks so much. I didn't know about this convention but it sounds great. I hate bidding over pre-empts so this will help enormously. Thanks!!
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#4 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-March-13, 22:29

Another option with a red-suit hand like this is to double and then pull a 4C bid to 4D, showing at least 5/5 red suits.
"For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens.” - George Washington, 1790
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#5 User is offline   dsLawsd 

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Posted 2018-March-13, 23:31

With no agreement, double works as above- and it has to be a
very good hand.
Another very good quick discussion with partner to have an agreement-
bids should show 2 suits in that case.
At rubber bridge with a stranger I bid game in one suit or the other- probably 4 H.
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#6 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 01:23

View PostLouisa79, on 2018-March-13, 20:06, said:

Thanks so much. I didn't know about this convention but it sounds great. I hate bidding over pre-empts so this will help enormously. Thanks!!


Most conventions have drawbacks to them, and it is important to consider whether you are willing to give up a natural 4C and 4D bid. Leaping Michaels (such as bidding 4D over 2S with this hand) means you cannot immediately show a good one-suited hand in diamonds. This is not such a big deal since there are other options with this sort of a hand - typically double and then bid diamonds.

However, non-leaping Michaels, such as in the auction you've given, is more problematic. Before adopting it, you and your partner should discuss what you do with hands with diamonds and which meaning is more useful to you.

I'm not saying don't play it - I do with some partners. But also don't adopt it just because it solves this specific hand.

As Winston suggests, you can also agree double and pull 4C to 4D shows this type of hand, but that is also not universal.If I weren't playing something that allows me to show this hand, I would simply guess 4H as our best shot at game.
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#7 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 07:05

preempts work. This hand is not easy to describe over 3s so we do the best we can with the tools available. Others have mentioned the benefits of giving up natural 4c and 4d bids (I am not crazy about the idea but it has merits) but here we will try and get as close as possible to showing our hand by starting with x and converting a club bid to diamonds. This will get the general idea of our hand pattern and approximate strength across but suffers somewhat since we would prefer to be able to emphasize the 5 card major more. Preempts work and we do the best that we can:))
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#8 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 07:54

I would double too. But I would not feel happy if partner leapt to 5 in response!

I play Leaping Michaels over a weak two, but I don't play non-leaping Michaels over a three-level pre-empt. After a two-level pre-empt, I can bid a single-suited minor at the three level or five level, so it is not a great loss for the four levekl to be artificial. Once our opponents have pre-empted to the three level, we sacrificing a useful natural bid if we play non-leaping Michaels.
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#9 User is offline   TheoKole 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 08:23

View PostLouisa79, on 2018-March-13, 19:24, said:

Hi,
I had a tricky hand to bid on and want to know what I should have done.
I was sitting South.
Dealer was East and bid 2S (weak 2). My partner (North) passed. West bid 3S.
My hand was 14 points:

: 8
♥ A K Q 3 2
♦ A J 10 9 8 7
♣ 6

What should I have bid?

Cheers!


This is a perfect hand for Leaping micheals bid of 4 . After a weak 2 bid it describes a 2 suited hand of and and it allows partner to choose the correct contract.

Cheers
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#10 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 10:08


Assuming that West dealt and opened 2, I rank
1. 4 = ART Non-leaping Michaels (if agreed with partner).
2. Double = T/O Same level correction (if agreed with partner, hoping that then he will be reluctant to leap to 5/6).
3. 4 = NAT. Practical mastermind punt (with no special agreements)
4. 4 = NAT. Unenterprising but safer.
5. 4 = ART. 2-suiter (Overbid?).

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#11 User is offline   maartenxq 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 10:44

View PostLouisa79, on 2018-March-13, 19:24, said:


: 8
♥ A K Q 3 2
♦ A J 10 9 8 7
♣ 6


I assume you do not play 4 as and . Failing that I would dbl and correct 4 !c to 4 . Partner should be able to work it out.

Maarten Baltussen
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#12 User is offline   pitbull 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 11:20

Agree that this is a very difficult problem. I side with Winstonm and double intending to pull a club bid to diamonds to show a red two suiter
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#13 User is offline   miamijd 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 12:29

A very tough hand. Someone should post this on bridgewinners and see what the results are.

I don't normally play non-Leaping Michaels here (but it's a common enough treatment). If you do, then you have an easy 4D bid.

If you don't play non-Leaping Michaels, then your choices are twofold:

1. Double, planning equal-level conversion of clubs to diamonds.

This gets you by the first round OK, but it has several problems:

A. What if partner passes? Not likely, but possible.

Partner is going to have 3 spades and occasionally will have 4 (people have been known to raise 2S to 3 on 2 pieces NV with the right hand). What if he has a standard seven-point balanced hand like:

KJx xxx xxxx Kxx

I would pass that hand. Opposite most (not all) Xs, if the opponents are making 3S, then 3NT or 4D doubled are likely to be almost as bad (maybe worse).

If partner passes here, however, you are apt to get a very bad score.

B. What do you do if partner bids 3NT? Not easy. 4H is an overbid at this point. Whatever you do (pass or 4H are the choices) is a complete guess that could go very wrong.

C. What do you do if partner bids 5C? Yuck.

D. Even if partner bids 4C and you correct to 4D, you have only suggested 4H, not 5. Partner is going to play you for 6+/4, so what have you accomplished? He will almost never correct to 4H even when that would be the right spot.

2. 4H. This looks rather inflexible, but partner rates to have 2.67 hearts (8 hearts split among three players), and maybe slightly higher than that, since of the 12 spades out, partner rates to have 4 but should only have 3. If partner has 3 hearts, you belong in hearts. If he has 2, then maybe you can pick up the diamonds, in which case you can handle 4-2 without losing control. If RHO has a heart stack, you are of course in the wrong spot.

Anything you do can go very wrong. That's why people preempt. If 4D non-Leaping Michaels isn't available, I would bid 4H with my fingers crossed.

Cheers,
mike
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#14 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-March-14, 16:30

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-March-13, 22:29, said:

Another option with a red-suit hand like this is to double and then pull a 4C bid to 4D, showing at least 5/5 red suits.

I don't think that this shows 5-5. You would do the same with 4-6.

The 4 cuebid (or 4 if agreed but this isn't standard) would show 5-5 or better, but obviously 4 forces you to the 5-level. Possibly you are quite happy to do that with this hand. But with a slightly weaker hand, if you don't play the 4 convention (nonleaping michaels), you would have to double and pull 4 to 4.

At matchpoints, you might also consider just bidding 4.
IMPs is probably a better format when everyone's drinking --- Vampyr
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