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quick tricks and major suits quick trick opening bid.

#1 User is offline   polarmatt 

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Posted 2018-March-02, 07:13

A 8 4 2
A J 7 6 4
A 6
4 2

we have 13 points here. from reading my book on bridge it says we should not open the bidding with 13 points if we dont have 2 quick tricks or a good major suit.

do we have 2 quick tricks here? we have 3 aces and is each one worth 1 quick trick?

is 5 hearts a good major suit?
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#2 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2018-March-02, 07:18

Yes, yes, and yes. It is a very good opening hand.
Your reference may be out-of-date, many 12 hcp hands are worth opening with 2 or more quick tricks and a 5-cd suit.
Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: http://bridgewithdan...stems/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded)

NOW playing a Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes-Millennium like) system with canapé, 11-14 NT with Keri Invites and Intermediate 2 bids (10-14), & 15+ 1 opener with transfer negatives @ 1-level & transfer positives @ the 2- and 3-levels. Canape after opening 1 or 1 (into a minor suit only). Playing Naturelle in another partnership.

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#3 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-March-02, 07:37

View Postpolarmatt, on 2018-March-02, 07:13, said:

A 8 4 2
A J 7 6 4
A 6
4 2

we have 13 points here. from reading my book on bridge it says we should not open the bidding with 13 points if we dont have 2 quick tricks or a good major suit.

do we have 2 quick tricks here? we have 3 aces and is each one worth 1 quick trick?

is 5 hearts a good major suit?



The notion of quick tricks was popular 70 odd years ago.
It really doesn't factor much into bidding decisions there days.

If you tell us where you live, someone can probably recommend a more modern approach regarding bidding.
Alderaan delenda est
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#4 User is offline   polarmatt 

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Posted 2018-March-02, 07:39

View PostPrecisionL, on 2018-March-02, 07:18, said:

Yes, yes, and yes. It is a very good opening hand.
Your reference may be out-of-date, many 12 hcp hands are worth opening with 2 or more quick tricks and any 5-cd suit.


from what I read in my book we should open with 1 with this hand. the reason for that is because we are telling our partner that we have 5 hearts. if we had 5 spades instead of four we would bid 1. Am i correct here?

what book is a good reference for todays games?
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#5 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-March-02, 09:53

View Postpolarmatt, on 2018-March-02, 07:39, said:


what book is a good reference for todays games?


Very much depends on where you live

I would suggest very different books in the United States, England, Australia, Poland, ...

I have no idea what to recommend in Germany, the Netherlands, France, ...
Alderaan delenda est
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#6 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2018-March-02, 14:15

View Posthrothgar, on 2018-March-02, 07:37, said:

The notion of quick tricks was popular 70 odd years ago.
It really doesn't factor much into bidding decisions there days.

If you tell us where you live, someone can probably recommend a more modern approach regarding bidding.


OTOH, Marty Bergen, one of America's best players and arguably it's foremost authority on bidding, emphasizes again and again that counting Quick Tricks is essential. Here are a couple of his comments -- " It may be out of fashion to count quick tricks, but you cannot play good bridge without doing so." (More Points Schmoints, pg. 24) "{Page Title} Quick Tricks {Lead Line} Counting quick tricks is essential for good hand evaluation." (Hand Evaluation, pg. 9)

To get to a total Quick Trick count, you add together the quick trick count of each suit. So, yes, the hand you're asking about has 3 Quick Tricks. For each suit, the quick trick count is based on the honors held in that suit alone, so

AK = 2
AQ = 1 1/2
A = 1
KQ = 1
Kx = 1/2 (Singleton K is 0 quick tricks. Evaluate at 1/2 quick trick only with an accompanying small card.)

Pretty typical in the US is to open with 12 high card points and 2 QTs in 1st or 2nd seat. In 3rd seat, many people will open a little lighter, but keep to normal opening requirements in 4th seat. As the number of quick tricks goes up, the point requirement can be slightly less to open. For example, it would be pretty common for many people to open 1 with 11 HCP and 2 1/2 quick tricks -- 1 on

Axx
AQJxx
xxx
xx

Most countries seem to have adopted 5 card major suit (/) openings, although in the UK opening 4 card major suits is common. So your suit is fine for opening. Without a 5 card major, you would open in a minor suit (/) if your hand doesn't meet the requirements for a 1 No Trump bid. Sometimes that may be a 3 card suit as with

Axxx
KQxx
xx
Kxx

where you would open 1 .

As others have suggested if you can identify where you are at, there are plenty of good books available to lay out the basics of bidding for you.
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