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Snatching defeat from the jaws of 4S

#1 User is offline   svengolly 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 00:40

Why oh why would GIB do this? My RDBL shows a spade fit, I hadn't promised any extra clubs. GIB pard only has 7 points. There's no slam try here. I'm fine in 4S (which makes).

In fact, GIB weirdness was all over tonight when I played in ACBL practice tourney #4. Several overbids by GIB even with minimum responses from me getting us one level too high.

5C Bid over 4S
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#2 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 00:45

Redouble shows exactly 3 spades. Opponents showed 10 diamonds, so GIB knows you have at most a singleton. That leaves 9 cards in clubs and hearts, so you must have at least 5 clubs. You're going to be hard pressed to get GIB to prefer a Moysian spade fit over a 9 card club fit.
Challenge event 14 is underway.

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#3 User is offline   svengolly 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 01:08

Hmm, I've always played a RDBL in that sequence as general fit showing, not exactly 3 card support.

But why would GIB pull at the 5 level with such a weak hand after I've voluntarily bid 4S? That seems a bit much even for GIB. So what's a better bid on my part to avoid this?

FWIW, GIB really messes with my head a LOT.
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#4 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 01:19

GIB plays support doubles, so double (or redouble in this case) is to show precisely 3 card support - you use spade raises to guarantee 4.

So I can't see how GIB has any choice but to pull to 5 - you showed strength for game, and a 9+ card fit surely has to be better than a 7 (and guaranteed not 8) card one. GIB knows you bid game without knowing about his 4 clubs after all!

GIB would bid 3 (4+ , 16-18 total points), but you also have 4 (4+ , 19-22 points) or 3 (4+ , 1- , 19-22) points to choose from if you want to force to game.
Challenge event 14 is underway.

Feel free to send me a friend challenge of any format as often as you like. I'll always accept :)
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#5 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 07:32

Smerriman has explained it quite simply. When you play with GIB, you are playing its system, not your own. It's not making a slam try, it is just putting the contract where the fit is known instead of it's known 4-3 fit (if you hadn't misled it)
Wayne Somerville
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#6 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 12:06

Gib knows there is a club fit and thinks spades is 4-3 anyone who bid 5C
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#7 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 15:50

View Postsvengolly, on 2018-February-25, 01:08, said:

Hmm, I've always played a RDBL in that sequence as general fit showing, not exactly 3 card support.



For the record, what was the purpose of showing general fit rather than just bidding to game over a passed hand with fit?
I'm not sure how GIB works, but your bidding probably messed with his head a LOT ;)
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#8 User is offline   svengolly 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 19:18

View Postpescetom, on 2018-February-25, 15:50, said:

For the record, what was the purpose of showing general fit rather than just bidding to game over a passed hand with fit?
I'm not sure how GIB works, but your bidding probably messed with his head a LOT ;)


OY, everyone's a critic. :P I asked in one post what my specific correct bid should have been to make GIB happy. No response. What's forcing in that sequence?
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#9 User is offline   svengolly 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 19:26

View Postsmerriman, on 2018-February-25, 01:19, said:

GIB would bid 3 (4+ , 16-18 total points), but you also have 4 (4+ , 19-22 points) or 3 (4+ , 1- , 19-22) points to choose from if you want to force to game.

OK thanks! With my regular partners, they'd leave me in 4S. So after 1S - X - 3S forces? Jump to 4S is a signoff and there might be more there (which as the auction went, I had to anyway).
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#10 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 20:18

All of your spade raises work exactly the same as if RHO didn't double - 2 is minimum, 3 is invitational, 4 is max. Your partner just has the additional information that you're not raising with a shapely 3 card support hand, which (without the interference) you would otherwise sometimes have to do.
Challenge event 14 is underway.

Feel free to send me a friend challenge of any format as often as you like. I'll always accept :)
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