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Bridge Base Advanced System notes for Bidding Polls

#61 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2005-May-06, 08:19

Ben,
don't you think that the System notes to refer to for the Bidding Polls should be in a separate PINNED post ?

I mean, if you leave those notes into this thread, this thread is likely to get buried by the dozens of threads on the various hands to discuss ? B)
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#62 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2005-May-11, 08:11

Hi,

one further remark regarding new convetions in BBO Advanced:
Do not overcomplicate the system, keep the description of the
system fairly simple.
The entry level for Newcomers, who want to participate, should
not be to high.
I know adding, one further agreement doe not hurt, but the 2nd
one does not hurt as well, ...

The main focus of the poll should be on judgement calls.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#63 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2005-May-12, 11:16

fred, on Apr 30 2005, 03:36 PM, said:

Bridge Base Advanced (and Bridge Base Basic) date back to the very first days of BBO. My original plan was to eventually turn these areas of our site into comprehensive system notes with plenty of example hands and quizzes so that people could test their knowledge of these systems.

I recall thinking that this was an important goal to achieve.
(...)

Probably there are people out there who would be interested on working on this project (which would involve trying to come up with a consensus as to what various bids should mean and then creating .lin files to present the information).

Then again, perhaps we should use Bridge World Standard. We have excellent relations with The Bridge World magazine and they have already done a lot of work to try to define an effective system for advanced players that most experts (in America at least) are comfortable with.

Any thoughts on this?

Something in me thinks that BBO advanced would have the best chances of being useful/successful if it just tries to fix what the majority of advanced and expert players would expect when playing "Let's play 2/1 and udca, fine p?" with a pick-up partner on BBO. (This would make it substantially less advanced than BWS, I guess, and different enough that it deserves to exist independantly.)

Exceptions are situations where everybody likes to play some convention, but there is no default choice (defense against 1NT, continuations after 2NT rebid etc.).

I think BBO adv comes pretty close to this goal, with some exceptions (EKCB, 4 as kickback when hearts agreed,...).

Arend
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#64 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-May-12, 11:46

My feeling is also that we should not try to convert BBO Advanced into a complex, complete system like BWS. The point is to have something fairly basic that you can play with a pickup expert partner on line. If it wasn't a pick up partner, you could customize it to fit your desires. I use BBO advanced as the basic system with several players, and we have added things to it over time (first to go is cappelletti).

Ben
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#65 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-June-09, 06:59

After reading the responses to the question should the panel include the "optional" serious 3NT (and by extension, LTTC) in their replies, I have decided the answer should be yes. The reason is fairly simple. We needed to decide if it was on or off (for sure) to make the answers make sense. But by turning it on, we get to see when the pro's would consider 3NT NOT to be serious even after a major fit is found (if such situation could exist), and how they would judge when to use this convention this convention and when not to use it. Since these last two issues are something I am interested in (so you can imagine some future borderline hands in this area), I thought making this addition would be a good idea.

IF last train to clarksville is something you are not familar with, you might want to read this (part II of improving 2/1 by Fred) article .... What is last train to clarksville

New BPO poll will be posted in ~12 hours. Votes must be four days (~96 hours) after posting of the poll.

Ben
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Posted 2005-June-18, 11:44

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#67 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2005-September-15, 14:55

Ben are long/short suit game tries part of system? I do not see them here but perhaps I am missing them? If not discussed do we assume what we want for the poll?
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#68 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-September-15, 17:02

mike777, on Sep 15 2005, 04:55 PM, said:

Ben are long/short suit game tries part of system? I do not seem them here but perhaps I am missing them? If not discussed do we assume what we want for the poll?

I recall no comments concerning long and short suit game tries. So the assumption is no, they are not part of the system. What exist is what is in the first part of this post. With the development of Full Disclosure we will have to be clear on such actions, so the group approving what might become the "official" BBO advanced FD version will have to make a ruling on such issues I guess.
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#69 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2009-December-29, 18:49

Quote

(first to go is cappelletti).


Yeah this sucks and no world class partnertship play it. Let's change it to something simple and much better like landy or multilandy.
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#70 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2009-December-30, 02:11

Wow a thread revival after 4 years!

Quote

Let's change it to simple like ... Multi Landy


Not that the convention is light years better than Capp, but it's not "simple". Simple is Dbl for the majors, rest natural.
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Posted 2009-December-30, 05:22

I think Landy is simpler, 2=majors, rest (even x)=natural, I mean artificial 2 is almost natural nowadays isn't it?
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#72 User is online   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-December-30, 07:03

bluecalm, on Dec 30 2009, 12:49 AM, said:

Quote

(first to go is cappelletti).


Yeah this sucks and no world class partnertship play it. Let's change it to something simple and much better like landy or multilandy.

correction: capp sucks beyond belief

prefer simple landy and 2 overcall = natural (KISS principle)

advances to landy should include 2 = you pick major kthxbai

NOW... how about some new set of hands? :)
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#73 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2009-December-30, 07:06

Quote

Simple is Dbl for the majors, rest natural.

Quote

I think Landy is simpler, 2♣=majors, rest (even x)=natural, I mean artificial 2♣ is almost natural nowadays isn't it?


Whatever is fine by me. I would prefer Landy as I like penalty double. Another option is 2C majors, 2D = d+M, rest natural.

Capp sucks hard especially in casual partnerships. So many problems after 2C overcall and their bid (what suit partner have ? how to get to know this ? what if they are in 4H and we would like to defend if partner has spade ? How to inquire for longer major/invite game opposite 2D? is it standard ? etc. etc. etc.)
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#74 User is online   nige1 

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Posted 2010-October-08, 05:43

Please provide a link to a topic that describes poll-format, how to participate, and a rough schedule. If, currently, there is no such topic, I would be grateful if somebody would provide one and Inquiry would pin it.
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#75 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2011-May-31, 10:22

View Postawm, on 2005-April-29, 13:58, said:

(2) After 1M-2x, which bids show extras? We had a thread on this earlier, and there was a pretty strong consensus that three-level high reverses in new suits do show extras (although I know some people who play that they don't). But how about 1-2x-2 (Max Hardy says doesn't show extras in the classic 2/1 book)? How about 1M-2x-3x? 1M-2x-2NT? Is it permissable to rebid 2NT without a true balanced hand?


View Postinquiry, on 2005-May-02, 08:09, said:

The point is, that "should" be enough information for players to sit down and play with each other.



I think that when something like the above is unknown, it's not enough information.
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#76 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-September-08, 07:16

View Postinquiry, on 2005-June-09, 06:59, said:

After reading the responses to the question should the panel include the "optional" serious 3NT (and by extension, LTTC) in their replies, I have decided the answer should be yes. The reason is fairly simple. We needed to decide if it was on or off (for sure) to make the answers make sense. But by turning it on, we get to see when the pro's would consider 3NT NOT to be serious even after a major fit is found (if such situation could exist), and how they would judge when to use this convention this convention and when not to use it. Since these last two issues are something I am interested in (so you can imagine some future borderline hands in this area), I thought making this addition would be a good idea.

IF last train to clarksville is something you are not familar with, you might want to read this (part II of improving 2/1 by Fred) article .... What is last train to clarksville

New BPO poll will be posted in ~12 hours. Votes must be four days (~96 hours) after posting of the poll.

Ben


Does Fred's article still exist, somewhere?

No worries, I've found it :) http://bbi.bridgebas...fg/2over12.html
the link from Ben's post is correct but does not work for me.
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#77 User is offline   Lurpoa 

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Posted 2011-December-02, 23:55



Inquiry's summary is very good.
But did anybody make a complete write-up of the system ? Is it available please.
How did the system develop further ? What is the relationship with the CCs on BBO: BBO Advanced (2/1=GF) and BBO Advanced 1.3. ?

Many thanks for your help



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#78 User is offline   wickedbid1 

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Posted 2012-January-02, 20:50

The BBO advanced system is appealing to me, more so than the last time I checked the BWS system.

However, may I suggest the label change of "Bergen" to "Reverse Bergen", as that is the method in which 3 di is the mixed raise. In Bergen the mixed raise is clubs, not what u r specifying.

Also, a minor spelling thing: quizzes, not quizes.
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