BBO Discussion Forums: Kaplan-Inversion - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Kaplan-Inversion Help over 1H-1S Structure!

#1 User is offline   dorisga44 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: 2012-October-21

Posted 2018-February-22, 09:15

Hi All,

Recently just started incorporating K-I into my system (5 Card Majors, 14-16 NT, transfer responses to 1). I have no issues with 1-1NT auctions but the big question I have is over 1-1:

An important point is that me and my partner have decided that we will shove the 5332's hands into 1C (11-13 or 17-19) or 1NT (14-16). This frees up the opener rebid over 1 - 1, so initially me and my partner played:

1NT = spades or 16+ (Gazzilli)
2 = nat
2 = nat
2 = nat

which is simple enough... however I don't like the fact we cannot play in 1NT when there's a misfit. I'm aware I can use 1N as just spades, however this can be passed out when opener has 4=6 when 2 is the better spot.

Been agonising over this for a little while and came up with this structure: what do we think?

1N = spades or diamonds, min opening hand (responder can pass of course if no spade fit) 2 = simple ask
2 = Gazzilli (usual bidding here)
2 = 6+ (further bids by opener - new suits can be natural 6-4 big, 3 can be 6+, 16+)
2 = 4 6+, up to 15pts
2 = 5-6?
2NT = The death hand 3 6, 16+?

Now we can sometimes play 1N in misfit hands, play 2 when opener has 4=6

Am I missing something here? Can anyone enlighten me on this?

Thanks in advance :)
0

#2 User is offline   awm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,886
  • Joined: 2005-February-09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Zurich, Switzerland

Posted 2018-February-22, 09:47

It seems like you can easily play a big diamond fit in 1nt this way (say 3541 opposite 2254 and you bid 1h-1S-1nt-pass? In fact this seems more likely than your 4-6 situation). You have also lost the ability to play 2C when opener has the round suits (typical Gazzilli problem).

Maybe it is better to play Zirconia instead of KI:

1S = Natural and then
... 1N = diamonds or strong (forcing)
... 2C = Natural
... 2D = 3-card raise
... 2H = Natural
... etc

1N = Natural and NF
... Pass = 45xx min
... 2C = Gazzilli
... others Natural

This gets you to 1nt when it’s right (not after Natural spades but you were not getting there when responder has spades in your method either) while giving other advantages.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
0

#3 User is offline   fromageGB 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,337
  • Joined: 2008-April-06

Posted 2018-February-23, 08:11

If you play matchpoints there is a lot to be said for putting the 5332s back into a 1 open! Having said that, there are various things I don't like with your suggestion. You are using a 16+ 2 but also have a 16+ 2NT on 36xx. Is this really necessary, when partner has already denied 5 spades by bidding 1, and when it forces you to 3 when after 2 you would play in 2?

I think you are also missing out on your objective of playing 1NT on misfit hands, because partner is obliged to continue if holding either spades or diamonds, and that's more than half or the hands, when there is still no guarantee of a fit.

Again, that 2 bid will force you to 3 on a 16 count opposite 5 or 6. I would prefer all strong hands to start with Gazzilli, except for 15/16 hcp 5+5+ two suiters.

If you would rather play in a 6 card heart suit rather than a 4-4 spade fit, why do you have that 2 rebid showing 4 spades and 6 hearts? Just use it for 6 alone, and use 2 to show 4 spades with 5+ hearts, as you have already given up on the minors, and put 1NT back to any weak hand without spades. You will then play 1NT more often.

An alternative and more radical idea is to almost give up on spades once partner has denied 5, and have
1NT=clubs or no other 4 card suit and not 6 hearts
2 = Gazzilli
2 = diamonds
2 = 6
If partner does not have clubs he passes 1NT, and if he does bid clubs, you remove to 2 with 4 spades, and 2 otherwise.
0

#4 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 785
  • Joined: 2012-April-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2018-February-25, 05:26

I would personally give up being able to play in 1NT, especially when opener promises an unbalanced hand. A few suggestions could be:

1. Transfer rebids. I haven't tried these myself, but many seems to like them over an unbalanced diamond opening. I guess the idea is that opener gets to show his second suit right away, but doesn't have to jump just because he has additional strength. So:

1H-1S;
1NT = Clubs, F1.
2C = Diamonds, F1.
2D = 6+H, F1.
2H = 4S, 11-16.
2S = 4S, 17+.
2NT+ = Strong hands with extra distribution.

2. Gazzilli. You already have a suggestion for this. Perhaps something like AWM's Zirconia could work too, even though your 1S response doesn't promise spades:

1H-1S;
1NT = 4+ diamonds or strong hand. Limited if strong with 6+H or 4S.
2C = Natural, minimum.
2D = 6+H, 11-14 or 18+.
2H = Spades, 11-15.
2S = Spades, 19+.

3. Use 1NT as 6+H. An upside of this is that other bids denies 6+H, and that you can invite without going past 2H on these hands.

1H-1S;
1NT = 6+H
2m = Natural, 5-4, 11-16
2H = 5H, 4S, 11-16
2S = Reverse.
2NT = Strong 5H and 5m.
3m = 5-4, 17-19.
1

#5 User is offline   nullve 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 986
  • Joined: 2014-April-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway
  • Interests:partscores

Posted 2018-February-25, 07:54

If you're willing to play highly artificial stuff over 1-1/N, why play KI (or Flannery, for that matter) to begin with?
0

#6 User is offline   benlessard 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,450
  • Joined: 2006-January-07
  • Location:Montreal Canada
  • Interests:All games. i really mean all of them.

Posted 2018-February-27, 13:45

1H-1S;
1NT = Clubs, F1.
2C = Diamonds, F1.
2D = 6+H, F1.
2H = 4S, 11-16.
2S = 4S, 17+.
2NT+ = Strong hands with extra distribution.


I play this for more than 10 years. Our 1M openings are 11-14 or 18-21 (we open 1C 15+ with 15-17 and 5M unb)

So after 1H-1S-?? 2H= 4S+H 11-14 and 2S and higher show 45?? and 18-21

2S=4S &H low short
2NT = 4522
3C = 4513
3D = 4612
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
0

#7 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,136
  • Joined: 2011-November-21
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Overbidding

Posted 2018-February-27, 18:55

View Postdorisga44, on 2018-February-22, 09:15, said:

Hi All,

Recently just started incorporating K-I into my system (5 Card Majors, 14-16 NT, transfer responses to 1). I have no issues with 1-1NT auctions but the big question I have is over 1-1:

An important point is that me and my partner have decided that we will shove the 5332's hands into 1C (11-13 or 17-19) or 1NT (14-16). This frees up the opener rebid over 1 - 1, so initially me and my partner played:

1NT = spades or 16+ (Gazzilli)
2 = nat
2 = nat
2 = nat

which is simple enough... however I don't like the fact we cannot play in 1NT when there's a misfit. I'm aware I can use 1N as just spades, however this can be passed out when opener has 4=6 when 2 is the better spot.

Been agonising over this for a little while and came up with this structure: what do we think?

1N = spades or diamonds, min opening hand (responder can pass of course if no spade fit) 2 = simple ask
2 = Gazzilli (usual bidding here)
2 = 6+ (further bids by opener - new suits can be natural 6-4 big, 3 can be 6+, 16+)
2 = 4 6+, up to 15pts
2 = 5-6?
2NT = The death hand 3 6, 16+?

Now we can sometimes play 1N in misfit hands, play 2 when opener has 4=6

Am I missing something here? Can anyone enlighten me on this?

Thanks in advance :)



Playing 1H-1S-?? if you want to play strong stuff you can just play transfers here

1NT: Clubs
2C: Diamonds or strong, now you can stop in 2D as well if you want.
2D: 6+ hearts
2H: 5 hearts 4 spades
2S: Reverse

But I think

1NT: Diamonds
2C: Clubs or Gazilli
2D: 6+ hearts
2H: 5 hearts 4 spades

might be a bit better. Now you have 1H-1S-1NT-2C as a noise. Now you have lots of sequences, because you can show hearts by 1H-1S-2D then moving again, 2D then passing 2H, 3H directly, 2H via 2C, and 3H via 2C - which means I'd suggest devoting more bids in the 'Gazilli' bid to various strong diamond hands.
0

#8 User is offline   dokoko 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 81
  • Joined: 2017-May-30

Posted 2018-March-27, 03:57

I see no good reason to be able to pass opener's 1NT rebid on a (possibly very) unbalanced hand.

1-1;1NT showing a strong hand or + seems not to be the best Gazzilli variation available. A very weak responder should return to 2 after the Gazzilli rebid if at all possible - losing the fit opposite the limited hand. So IMO it's better to show with a bid of 2 or 2 (as you prefer) and to include + into the 1NT Gazzilli rebid.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users