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2N as strong both majors

#1 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2018-February-19, 13:56

I have 2N available for something and presently use it as 5-10 both minors. Have mixed feelings about weak minors because it leaves 3m for the opponents to describe something of their major suit holdings but 2N deprives partner of 3m as asking bids.

The real reason, however, is that I'd like to offload a bit from the strong club. An obvious drawback is getting too high. Another is that 2N as 15+ 5M/5M is infrequent. I forget the exact figure but it's maybe 1/4 or 1/3 of the frequency of weak minors. OTOH, it does leave 3m for conventional meanings.

I could also restrict 2N to a range of say 15-19 (or even 20+ and keep 15-19 within 1C) but then I don't get to offload as many hands.

Curious what folks think of this. Also, what meanings would one assign to 3C, 3D, 3H and 3S? 3C could actually relay at +1 but I'm thinking it's needed as something else.
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#2 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-February-19, 22:11

While it might be useful to have 3 as some sort of ask usually if your asking you stronger and can afford step. Here you have both majors, so 2N is higher than that type of bid usually is.
For example if 2N is minors 3 is the usual ask.
Over Multi 2 of other artificial 2 2N is usually the ask.
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#3 User is offline   foobar 

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Posted 2018-February-20, 00:56

It would be interesting to know about the motivation for offloading these hands from strong club. Regarding methods over 2N, Miles' Unbalanced Diamond used 2C to describe similar hands IIRC, so if you can look it up, it might give some ideas (level notwithstanding).

If I had to play such a method, perhaps, 4C as asking for a transfer, and 4D asking for best major? 3D similarly clarifies length, and 3C is some sort of strong ask for shortness, length?
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#4 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2018-February-20, 02:41

I played 2NT as 5-5 both majors with 15-17 hcp in my forcing pass system. This was because we couldn't use 2NT as weak, and we didn't want to use it as natural. We used the 3C response as GF relay and 3D as invitational. Bidding a major was a sign-off.

Another way might be 3D as a puppet to 3H (to sign off in 3M, or perhaps other conventional meanings if bidding something else), and to use 3M directly as invitational.

The opening was very rare, I think we opened with it perhaps three or four times. I believe the results were okay though.

My partner, in his previous partnership, had lots of transfer style preempts in order to offload "strong but minimum" 5-5 hands from their strong club opening. I think they played:

2D = Weak 6H or 5H and 5m, or strong 5H and 5X, or strong 5-5 minors
2H = Weak 6S or 5S and 5m, or strong 5S and 5m
2S = Weak 5-5 majors
2NT = Weak 5-5 minors

They believed opening a strong club with strong two-suiters was a tempo loss.
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#5 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2018-February-20, 14:03

View PostKungsgeten, on 2018-February-20, 02:41, said:

I played 2NT as 5-5 both majors with 15-17 hcp in my forcing pass system. This was because we couldn't use 2NT as weak, and we didn't want to use it as natural. We used the 3C response as GF relay and 3D as invitational. Bidding a major was a sign-off.

Another way might be 3D as a puppet to 3H (to sign off in 3M, or perhaps other conventional meanings if bidding something else), and to use 3M directly as invitational.

The opening was very rare, I think we opened with it perhaps three or four times. I believe the results were okay though

View PostKungsgeten, on 2018-February-20, 02:41, said:

They believed opening a strong club with strong two-suiters was a tempo loss.


Glad it worked ok. I've wondered if it's asking too much for 1C to handle all strong hands. Obviously many offload 20-21 balanced with their 2N opening and 2N is the only opening I have that is semi-available.
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#6 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2018-February-22, 21:25

One possibility is to play 2NT as a weak preempt in either minor, leaving 3m as preemptive, but happy to hear partner bid 3NT if she can. In the ACBL this is a mid-chart convention, and I believe under WBF rules it's Brown Sticker.
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#7 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-February-23, 09:33

Jasmine uses 2N = ART 5-9 HCP 5+ and 5+ other. Now
  • 3/3 = P/C
  • 3 = Enquiry. Then 3 = , 3 = , 3N = , 4/4/4 = Extra shape.
  • 3/4 = S/O.

We also considered 2 = ART 5-9 HCP. 2-suiter without . Now
  • 2/3/3 = P/C.
  • 2N= Enquiry. Then 3 = denies , 3 = denies , 3 = denies .

But the latter contravenes almost all current system-regulations.
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