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Cheating Are my suspicions justified?

#1 User is offline   euclidz 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 07:42

Are my suspicions justified?

God knows why anyone would want to cheat in an anonymous on-line Bridge game.

Here’s the evidence . . (Note: I have reported this.)

(Where - Acol club) . . . I’ll call them Tom, Dick and Harry. I suspect that they are all one person, i.e. one person has created three user names and has two devices and logs on both devices kibbing on one and playing on the other i.e. he/she sees all 4 hands as a kibber on the other device.

My suspicion started after some spectacular bidding e.g. 1H, 1S(o/c), 3H, 6H and others And also seeing some spectacular play after regular long pauses.

That started me ‘following‘ them and here is what I found. Whenever Tom or Dick play Harry is always kibbing. Tom and Dick are never playing at the same time and Harry never plays ever, he only kibs. When Tom logs in, changes table or logs out Harry mirrors him. When Dick logs in, changes table or logs out Harry mirrors him. Harry never kibs anybody else, in fact Harry is never on-line if either Tom or Dick are not on-line.

If he/she is not cheating the only other explanation I can see is that Harry is a learner and Tom and Dick are his teachers i.e. Tom and Dick contact Harry each time they intend to play and invite him to watch. . . . . Nah, that’s ridiculous, it must be cheating.

Unless I am missing something?
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#2 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 09:43

If you suspect cheating on BBO, report it to abuse@bridgebase.com. Even with names changed, it's inappropriate here.

#3 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 10:45

View Posteuclidz, on 2018-February-15, 07:42, said:

Are my suspicions justified?God knows why anyone would want to cheat in an anonymous on-line Bridge game.Here's the evidence . . (Note: I have reported this.)(Where - Acol club) . . . I'll call them Tom, Dick and Harry. I suspect that they are all one person, i.e. one person has created three user names and has two devices and logs on both devices kibbing on one and playing on the other i.e. he/she sees all 4 hands as a kibber on the other device.My suspicion started after some spectacular bidding e.g. 1H, 1S(o/c), 3H, 6H and others And also seeing some spectacular play after regular long pauses.That started me 'following' them and here is what I found. Whenever Tom or Dick play Harry is always kibbing. Tom and Dick are never playing at the same time and Harry never plays ever, he only kibs. When Tom logs in, changes table or logs out Harry mirrors him. When Dick logs in, changes table or logs out Harry mirrors him. Harry never kibs anybody else, in fact Harry is never on-line if either Tom or Dick are not on-line.If he/she is not cheating the only other explanation I can see is that Harry is a learner and Tom and Dick are his teachers i.e. Tom and Dick contact Harry each time they intend to play and invite him to watch. . . . . Nah, that's ridiculous, it must be cheating. Unless I am missing something?

Q.E.D :)
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#4 User is offline   euclidz 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 11:49

View Postbarmar, on 2018-February-15, 09:43, said:

If you suspect cheating on BBO, report it to abuse@bridgebase.com. Even with names changed, it's inappropriate here.


I reported it a month back but I do understand that they’re very busy and it’s very difficult and very time consuming to investigate.

I posted it here because I also accept that I don’t know everything and someone might point out the flaw in my thinking.

Or . . . the individual in question might read this post, recognise himself and stop.
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#5 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 12:18

View Postbarmar, on 2018-February-15, 09:43, said:

If you suspect cheating on BBO, report it to abuse@bridgebase.com. Even with names changed, it's inappropriate here.

It is possible to look up your hand records, so if you mention any details (even knowing your userid) people can figure out who your are talking about.

That said, to not discuss cheating on BBO forums is ignoring the elephant in the room.

The example you gave is a typical way an unimaginative person could use.


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#6 User is offline   euclidz 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 13:01

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-February-15, 12:18, said:

It is possible to look up your hand records.


I am confident that, from the information in my post, only Tom, Dick or Harry could identify anyone.
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#7 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 14:19

View Posteuclidz, on 2018-February-15, 13:01, said:

I am confident that, from the information in my post, only Tom, Dick or Harry could identify anyone.

Perhaps, in your case, where you are there are not hand records. Others have posted similar accusations and it was surprisingly easy to find out who they were talking about. Especially if this were to involve one of the NBO's that hold tournaments accusing someone could cause accuser problems.
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#8 User is offline   ladydoc 

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Posted 2018-February-21, 20:49

Your suspicions are very justified.

There was a player, not naming him specifically who used this method several years ago, though he hasn't been on much in the past year under the names. He was using his BBO name, another male name, and two female names. Notice I'm staying away from identifying him, under his numerous aliases.
He was very nervy, even taking on some of USA's star players and of course winning.
He came to an end when a sysop, BBO help, was notified , came to the table and booted the ISP number, wherein both the cheater and his alias were booted.
And with that one move, BBO became less cheater friendly.
So, if you do have the suspicions and see a friendly sysop, ask them to check for you. Some will.... without actually making any accusations.
If it's a family game and a husband is simply playing with his wife, it won't embarrass them.
If you notice the same "kibber" comes on whenever there's a difficult guess to make on a finesse, then you are right in your suspicions. I've seem that couple on almost daily. I think most are aware of who they are. There are two sets (cheater id and helper id ) that I'm aware of. And of course, there probably are more.
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#9 User is offline   euclidz 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 04:40

I understand that investigating these reports is a complex and time consuming issue for BBO but what I don't understand is why BBO don't do the some things to help, help themselves.

The simplest and easiest thing they could do is to introduce a feature whereby the 'Host' of the table can evict kibbers; at the moment the host can evict players but not kibbers - why?

And, why are there no 'moderators?' Every forum I have ever joined has moderators. If BBO appointed moderators for each and every Public Club giving them access to the tools to investigate, they could police these reports.
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#10 User is offline   diana_eva 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 05:39

The table host can block kibitzers. There are privacy options in table settings.

You should know that abuse reports must be sent to abuse@bridgebase.com along with any suspicious hands you may have noticed.

Posting hands in the forums to prove how some unknown cheater operates is against the forum rules.

#11 User is offline   euclidz 

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Posted 2018-February-25, 07:04

View Postdiana_eva, on 2018-February-25, 05:39, said:

You should know that abuse reports must be sent to abuse@bridgebase.com along with any suspicious hands you may have noticed.

Posting hands in the forums to prove how some unknown cheater operates is against the forum rules.


I have reported it at least 4 times in the past month but as I have said, I understand it's very difficult and very time consuming for BBO to investigate.
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#12 User is offline   kmck95415 

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Posted 2018-February-27, 15:56

View Posteuclidz, on 2018-February-25, 04:40, said:

I understand that investigating these reports is a complex and time consuming issue for BBO but what I don't understand is why BBO don't do the some things to help, help themselves.

The simplest and easiest thing they could do is to introduce a feature whereby the 'Host' of the table can evict kibbers; at the moment the host can evict players but not kibbers - why?

And, why are there no 'moderators?' Every forum I have ever joined has moderators. If BBO appointed moderators for each and every Public Club giving them access to the tools to investigate, they could police these reports.


Problem is, in these cases, the Host of the table and the kibitzer are the same person. The unsuspecting opps usually do not even notice that there is a kibitzer. Couldn't BBO have a way to highlight the fact that there is a kibitzer watching? ...especially on tables with a consistent single kibitzer....always suspect, imo.
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#13 User is offline   kmck95415 

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Posted 2018-February-27, 16:10

View Posteuclidz, on 2018-February-15, 07:42, said:

Are my suspicions justified?



There is also the variation with 1 person using 2 IDs to partner him/herself. In two cases that I have reported and have apparently been reprimanded by BBO, the cheating continues except
at a lower level. With this method the cheater only gets to see half the cards during the bidding, but it sure helps to find the right contract. On defense, this team is brutal.
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#14 User is offline   euclidz 

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Posted 2018-April-06, 12:18

Update:

Tom/Dick haven't played since 18th March (hopefully because BBO barred him) but he was replaced by Mary (yes Tom/Dick has had a sex change). Harry is still there now kibbing for Mary. . . . . . . He'll have to be a bit smarter than a sex change to throw me off the scent :)
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#15 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-April-06, 14:30

View Posteuclidz, on 2018-April-06, 12:18, said:

Update:

Tom/Dick haven't played since 18th March (hopefully because BBO barred him) but he was replaced by Mary (yes Tom/Dick has had a sex change). Harry is still there now kibbing for Mary. . . . . . . He'll have to be a bit smarter than a sex change to throw me off the scent :)


So it took BBO over a month to bar Tom/Dick??? And Harry wasn't barred at the same time??? Hmmmm :o

Or maybe BBO didn't do anything and the perp retired Tom/Dick on their own.
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#16 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-April-06, 14:59

View Postjohnu, on 2018-April-06, 14:30, said:

So it took BBO over a month to bar Tom/Dick??? And Harry wasn't barred at the same time??? Hmmmm :o

Or maybe BBO didn't do anything and the perp retired Tom/Dick on their own.

Tom/Dick/Harry barred.
Next hour Joe, John and Jennifer are new users and if they are really good have a new isp address.
To put a permanent stop a player you need a way to identify them. BBO allows anonymous users which I think is good.

As someone who regularly uses the BBO with their wife on the same isp, peeking doesn't require one person using two ids. That just means you don't need an accomplice. If you look up our hands some are so laughable we obviously don't know each others hands.



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#17 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-April-06, 17:38

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-April-06, 14:59, said:

Tom/Dick/Harry barred.
Next hour Joe, John and Jennifer are new users and if they are really good have a new isp address.


Is your solution to do nothing because it is so easy to get a new account?

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-April-06, 14:59, said:

To put a permanent stop a player you need a way to identify them. BBO allows anonymous users which I think is good.


Do you think there is a difference between playing anonymously or being allowed to create an account anonymously? BBO could require some real ID to create an account, and then you could sign on and play anonymously.


View Poststeve2005, on 2018-April-06, 14:59, said:

As someone who regularly uses the BBO with their wife on the same isp, peeking doesn't require one person using two ids. That just means you don't need an accomplice. If you look up our hands some are so laughable we obviously don't know each others hands.


Or it could be 2 people using entirely different ISP's which doesn't make it any harder to create new ID's.
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#18 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2018-April-06, 20:45

Or you could just have some tables restricted to people who have identified themselves. It could be a host option.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#19 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-April-07, 15:44

View Postjohnu, on 2018-April-06, 17:38, said:

BBO could require some real ID to create an account, and then you could sign on and play anonymously.

This would be a useful step, assuming of course that BBO can be trusted not to sell my real ID and that I will not be discriminated if I am not part of some other social network.
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#20 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-April-07, 20:40

View Postpescetom, on 2018-April-07, 15:44, said:

This would be a useful step, assuming of course that BBO can be trusted not to sell my real ID and that I will not be discriminated if I am not part of some other social network.


While not a 100% guaranteed screening, anybody who has played any of the paid robot games, ACBL games, money bridge, etc has some sort of ID on file with BBO.
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