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No agreement BIDDING

#1 User is offline   memoires 

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Posted 2018-February-14, 12:50




Partner is North and bid 3 cuebidding for fit and invite.

I am south and think 3 showing 16-18 is better.

What do you think about this ?
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#2 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2018-February-14, 13:42

I don't mind 3 so much as it's game forcing but would prefer 4 showing shape rather than power with spade support and a side source of tricks in clubs.

3 is passable and should be a flatter power bid that is not on my radar at all.
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#3 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2018-February-14, 13:48

3 or a 4 splinter are fine, can live with 4, don't like 3.
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#4 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-February-14, 14:16

I don't believe that 3 should promise spade support - what would you do with a solid club suit asking for a heart stopper?

But of course if 3 promises spade support in your system then he can use it.

3 is a bit vague, it could be this hand or it could be a balanced 18 count with 4-card support. It would be my bid anyway. Splintering or bidding 4 with this hand is too much imho.
... most of the new ideas I get are pretty "boring", mostly focusing on constructive methods rather than destructive ones --- Kungsgeten
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#5 User is online   spotlight7 

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Posted 2018-February-14, 22:28

View Postmemoires, on 2018-February-14, 12:50, said:




Partner is North and bid 3 cuebidding for fit and invite.

I am south and think 3 showing 16-18 is better.

What do you think about this ?


Support with support. I like 3S.


3H could be a number of hand types,

some without spade support.

4S shows 19+ balanced.


If some bid 4S with this and and 4S with balanced 19+,

how would your poor partner cope with a 5H bid?
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 04:26

View Posthelene_t, on 2018-February-14, 14:16, said:

I don't believe that 3 should promise spade support - what would you do with a solid club suit asking for a heart stopper?

But of course if 3 promises spade support in your system then he can use it.

3 is a bit vague, it could be this hand or it could be a balanced 18 count with 4-card support. It would be my bid anyway. Splintering or bidding 4 with this hand is too much imho.


3 doesn't need to promise spade support, but when you pull 3N/4 to 4 it does
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#7 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 04:43

for me a bid a 4 is a bid based on power and denying shortage (no splinter) - so this is definitely not a 4 bid. If you are prepared to commit to game then 4 seems right and allows partner to downgrade his diamond honours. 3 doesn't set spades as trumps and is unhelpful.

I am happy to invite with 3.
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#8 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 15:10

View Postmemoires, on 2018-February-14, 12:50, said:

Partner is North and bid 3 cuebidding for fit and invite.I am south and think 3 showing 16-18 is better.What do you think about this ?

I rank
  • 4 = SPL. An overbid but descriptive and warns partner of potential duplication.
  • 4 = PRE. Gives little away.
  • 3 = PRE. An underbid. (I suppose it's OK if it shows 16-18 but would still prefer a more balanced hand).
  • 3 = CUE. Would prefer shorter

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#9 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 15:26

View Postnige1, on 2018-February-15, 15:10, said:

I rank
  • 4 = SPL. An overbid but descriptive and warns partner of potential duplication.
  • 4 = PRE. Gives little away.
  • 3 = PRE. An underbid. (I suppose it's OK if it shows 16-18 but would still prefer a more balanced hand).
  • 3 = CUE. Would prefer shorter



I think it depends largely upon how one reputes West.
If he has what he promised then 4 makes a lot of sense, if not then 4 is not unwarranted and tells partner all he needs to know.
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-February-15, 15:57

View Postnige1, on 2018-February-15, 15:10, said:

I rank
  • 4 = SPL. An overbid but descriptive and warns partner of potential duplication.
  • 4 = PRE. Gives little away.
  • 3 = PRE. An underbid. (I suppose it's OK if it shows 16-18 but would still prefer a more balanced hand).
  • 3 = CUE. Would prefer shorter


3 and 4 is not preemptive in this spot.

When responder raises opener's 4+ or 5+ (depending on system) suit, he can easily have a weak hand with 5+ card support. Preempt makes sense.

Opener is unlikely to have 5-card support for responder's suit. You may have ways to distinguish the balanced 18-count from a hand like the one we discuss here, but in any case, 3 is stronger than 2 and 4 is even stronger.
... most of the new ideas I get are pretty "boring", mostly focusing on constructive methods rather than destructive ones --- Kungsgeten
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#11 User is online   rmnka447 

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Posted 2018-February-16, 11:04

With natural raises and splinters available, I don't like opener's 3 . 3 in this situation is virtually unlimited and that's not the hand that opener has.

I think 3 is right because it reflects the value of the hand. Partner can pass with a minimum response, but will usually carry on with constructive holdings (7-8+)

A 4 splinter commits to 4 , but with an unknown number of losers in and just 12 HCP, who knows if playing 4 is right.
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#12 User is offline   GrahamJson 

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Posted 2018-February-17, 10:01

3S looks more than enough for me. Even if 3H promises support it should surely show more values than this. You have a six loser hand in support of spades, which 3S shows exactly. Second choice would be 4S, which I think is an overbid but could work out.
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