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DONT

#1 User is offline   123600 

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Posted 2018-February-02, 19:39

my P and I play DONT.
The bidding has been 1NT P P X
Is the double in the passout seat showing a 6 card suit undeer DONT or for takeout??
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#2 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2018-February-03, 00:58

Most players will extend whatever tools they use in the direct seat over 1 NT to the pass out seat. You can play it differently if you like by partnership agreement, but then you have two ways of competing that you have to remember, remember when they apply, and then use them properly. In the interests of keeping it simple, most people will just use one.
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#3 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2018-February-03, 09:27

You can certainly agree to play it any old way and what I play is exactly the same in all seats with the one exception of double in pass out seat. That's not too much of a memory load.

One request as I direct online is please don't alert it and say DONT which is one of the biggest time wasters I come across when the opponents call because they don't know what that means. That goes for a few other conventions alerted by name but this one stands out.
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#4 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2018-February-03, 12:28

Yes, I agree with ggwhiz that you should convey the meaning of the bid not just the convention name.

So if you interpret the double as a DONT bid, you might say "The double requires a relay to 2 and shows a 1 suited hand." Of course, after you alert, you don't volunteer that information, but only give it in response to a request for information about the alert.
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#5 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-February-03, 16:02

View Postggwhiz, on 2018-February-03, 09:27, said:

One request as I direct online is please don't alert it and say DONT which is one of the biggest time wasters I come across when the opponents call because they don't know what that means. That goes for a few other conventions alerted by name but this one stands out.

I'd say that goes for any convention, and not just online.
Even if the opponents are familiar with the convention they will (or should) want to know how you play it.
It's clearer and more conformant to the rules to simply explain what the bid means.
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#6 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-February-03, 16:37

View Postrmnka447, on 2018-February-03, 12:28, said:

Yes, I agree with ggwhiz that you should convey the meaning of the bid not just the convention name.

So if you interpret the double as a DONT bid, you might say "The double requires a relay to 2 and shows a 1 suited hand." Of course, after you alert, you don't volunteer that information, but only give it in response to a request for information about the alert.

I agree that you shouldn't mention a convention name but you shouldn't say requires a relay" either.

First, it is not true. Second, it gives UI to p as he will know that your 2 is not natural.

So if possible, say what a bid shows, not what it asks for. Dbl shows a 1-suited hand, period.
You might speculate on the psychopathology of some posters but hating them seems excessive --- Nige1
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#7 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-February-03, 16:41

View Post123600, on 2018-February-02, 19:39, said:

Is the double in the passout seat showing a 6 card suit undeer DONT or for takeout??

It certainly isn't take-out. What would that even mean?

Playing DONT it shows a 1-suited hand. You can of course agree not to play DONT in balancing seat. A problem with DONT in balancing seat is that if partner leaves it in he might not be able to guess which suit to lead.
You might speculate on the psychopathology of some posters but hating them seems excessive --- Nige1
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#8 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-February-03, 22:30

View Posthelene_t, on 2018-February-03, 16:37, said:

Second, it gives UI to p as he will know that your 2 is not natural.

Having partner alerting 2 might be a hint that 2 is artificial. <sarcasm>
You should be clear in your explanation to opponents that 2 is not natural. I don't know how you are supposed to give a proper explanation of 2 which doesn't include that clubs aren't necessarily being shown.
Your partner isn't supposed to take action based on your explanation.



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#9 User is offline   heart76 

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Posted 2018-February-06, 05:22

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-February-03, 22:30, said:

You should be clear in your explanation to opponents that 2 is not natural. I don't know how you are supposed to give a proper explanation of 2 which doesn't include that clubs aren't necessarily being shown.
Your partner isn't supposed to take action based on your explanation.


I hope I did not misunderstand what you wrote... anyway, the explanation (when requested) of the DONT X should NOT include info regarding partner's options if not explicitly requested.
I concur also with helene that 2 is not a mandatory bid: what do you bid with a club void and your own 6+ card major?

2 itself shall be alerted by the doubler as relay without any specific meaning about points or suits.
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-February-06, 05:48

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-February-03, 22:30, said:

Having partner alerting 2 might be a hint that 2 is artificial. <sarcasm>
You should be clear in your explanation to opponents that 2 is not natural. I don't know how you are supposed to give a proper explanation of 2 which doesn't include that clubs aren't necessarily being shown.

dbl should be explained as showing a 1-suited hand (plus maybe some indication of point range and provisions for 5332 and 6-4 or w/e)
2 should be explained as "pass or correct" or "to play if I have clubs" or whatever is easier for opps to understand.

What you should not do is explaining your own bid, like "dbl asks me to bid 2". This would be almost as bad as the infamous explanation of a 1NT overcall as "16-18 and we play system on".
You might speculate on the psychopathology of some posters but hating them seems excessive --- Nige1
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