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Pre-empted?

#21 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2018-January-30, 14:52

View Post0deary, on 2018-January-30, 13:38, said:

Having “correctly” passed can I raise a nasty awkward issue after seeing the whole hand (after yet again an excellent question from Tramtick):

To open 2H South almost universally announces 6-9 points and a half decent suit in H. Moreover in first position vulnerable South should show top end of the range. I’m expecting South to open 8/9 points and a good suit

Here 1 of South points is a Jack in Jx spade and I think it should be ignored. So effective South opened 2H vul in first position on KJTxxx. Thats only 4 sure tricks, potentially 4 off vulnerable. I think this is quite wrong and in my personal view a psyche


North now has such a cracking hand! Surely slam should routinely be explored with a 2N bid? North didn’t do so: went straight to game and no more! Sadly I think North must have been well aware that South could open sub minimum and has fielded that. That is so bad! And how can E/W know?

Poor East is asked to make a sensible bid after this. For my money GJepson made a very sensible 5D simply assuming 4H makes without any slam interest, and that bid will now be zapped

I’d be curious what a Director would make of this?


surely this is a windup?
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#22 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2018-January-31, 00:32

The question posed was what would you bid with the given hand.Unfortunately some posters are blaming the opponents for missing a slam and calling the director etc.What was expected was a reasonable argument for bidding or passing with the given hand.Let me tell you, the director can do absolutely nothing ,if called,in the situation.There are no written laws on the weak 2Bids requirements and one can always psyche.Even if a director admonishes the opponent if he indeed has psyched,there will not be any redress in this case as opponents were practically cold for 6 hearts.I shall quote one example.A players RHO opened 1C(18 plus,any) and this player very short in minors and holding just 8 points in queens and jacks bid 1NT which was explained by his partner as a destructive MINORS two suiter.The opponents missed a cold 5D game and when the director asked to keep the scores an appeal was made.t
The appeals committee called the player in question and he explained that he had psyched.The scores were left as they were and the appeal for redress was also rejected.
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#23 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-January-31, 11:40

View Postmsjennifer, on 2018-January-31, 00:32, said:

There are no written laws on the weak 2Bids requirements and one can always psyche.

This is not entirely and universally so.
In ACBL for instance I believe that weak 2 bids must be alerted if they can be less than 5 cards, and pre-empts with less than 2 HCP must be pre-alerted.
In FIGB (Italy) written rules forbid psyches (of any kind) except at high levels of competition and directors will frown on any opening with less than 5 HCP (despite the apparent lack of a current written limit).
I imagine that other restrictions will apply elsewhere.
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#24 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-January-31, 11:59

View PostMkgnao, on 2018-January-30, 08:28, said:

Unclear? In my book, 4NT shows a two-suiter (often minors) and pulling 5 to 5 + . What's the alternative to this meaning: bidding 5 through 4NT as a slam try in ?

With spades and a minor, many players would just bid 4, so 4N is likely to be for the minors. Over partner's 5, without special agreement, some players might regard 5 as a slam try -- possibly just s.
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#25 User is offline   miamijd 

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Posted 2018-January-31, 17:17

Bidding obviously worked out very badly on the actual layout. But in practice, I think it's a tough choice. 4S, X (with equal level conversion if partner bids 5C), and pass all seem like reasonable choices to me.

Mike
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#26 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2018-January-31, 18:38

View PostCyberyeti, on 2018-January-30, 13:47, said:

Don't judge other peoples' preempts by your own standards, look at their card.

Nothing to do with director (at least in the UK).

Provided 2 is natural in the UK (at least 4 cards) you can AGREE to open a weak 2 on whatever you like (xxxx, xxxx, x, xxxx was a classic first in hand I opened 2 admittedly nobody vul to swing something like 26 IMPs into the plus column recently). Our agreement is 0-10 4+ cards although it's very unlikely to be <5 cards first in vul.


some agreements are just too stupid though.
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#27 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2018-February-01, 06:49

View Postwank, on 2018-January-31, 18:38, said:

some agreements are just too stupid though.


Ours are extreme, but I think treating first seat as an undisciplined preempting position is an interesting debate. (there are 3 people you can mess up, 2:1 it's not partner)
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#28 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2018-February-01, 08:28

I just saw this topic and saw that bidding on this hand turned out to be disaster, but I would bid 4 at the table.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
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#29 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-February-04, 15:26

View PostGrahamJson, on 2018-January-30, 02:51, said:

Of course you can argue than you can bid 4S then bail out to 5D if doubled. Perhaps that is the best tactic, but it sounds a bit desperate to me, and you are more likely to be doubled in 5D than if you were to bid it confidently immediately.

Getting doubled in 5 could be gold :)
You might speculate on the psychopathology of some posters but hating them seems excessive --- Nige1
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