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Bids 2 clubs with 2 clubs

#1 User is offline   AyunuS 

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Posted 2018-January-27, 16:08

http://tinyurl.com/y7l3lbj5

Advanced robots, IMPs.

I'm shocked that rebidding 2 could be the best way to bid this hand. I'd think it would either be raised by partner with too few clubs, or seen as a psyche bid to the other team.

The fix: Well, honestly, it could've just opened 1NT. And if it deemed its hand too strong for that, it could've then rebid 2NT or 2 after my bid, but I think 1NT opening is the best here.
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#2 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-January-27, 16:47

1N is possible. But 2 rebid is so obvious.
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#3 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2018-January-27, 17:48

Ha. If you thought that was bad, basic GIB rebids 2 :/ I guess this is one of those edge cases when it thinks it's too weak to reverse (requires 18 total points) but doesn't take that into account when opening.
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#4 User is offline   AyunuS 

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Posted 2018-January-28, 01:11

2 is actually not obvious to it since it plays a pretty strict 18+ points to do a reverse, and it only has 17. The problem is that if it doesn't open 1NT, almost everything either is 16 points or less, or 18 points or more, except 3, but that would also show 6, so it didn't like that either. This bid a like a hole in its system. It took it like 5 seconds to finally make this bid. If you're good at telling stuff based on time taken, it might be possible to tell when it makes this kind of 2 bid.
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#5 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-January-28, 10:45

View PostAyunuS, on 2018-January-28, 01:11, said:

2 is actually not obvious to it since it plays a pretty strict 18+ points to do a reverse, and it only has 17. The problem is that if it doesn't open 1NT, almost everything either is 16 points or less, or 18 points or more, except 3, but that would also show 6, so it didn't like that either. This bid a like a hole in its system. It took it like 5 seconds to finally make this bid. If you're good at telling stuff based on time taken, it might be possible to tell when it makes this kind of 2 bid.

Gib counts points for shortness and it has two doubletons so should have enough for a reverse. Gib counts shortness even in spades the suit partner bid, now that is ridiculous.
Gib is regularly short a point or two in it's bidding, So 2 is way more obvious than 2.
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#6 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2018-January-28, 16:51

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-January-28, 10:45, said:

Gib counts points for shortness and it has two doubletons so should have enough for a reverse.

It deducts a point for an honor in a short suit, so the honor doubletons don't count for any shortness points.

View PostAyunuS, on 2018-January-28, 01:11, said:

This bid a like a hole in its system. It took it like 5 seconds to finally make this bid. If you're good at telling stuff based on time taken, it might be possible to tell when it makes this kind of 2 bid.

As above the systemic bid is 2. The 5 seconds is GIB simulating a lot of hands, figuring out how the bidding would proceed for each potential choice, and deciding whether any bid results in a better outcome on average than a 2 bid.

It's not completely incomprehensible to see why the results of that simulation might cause it to prefer 2 over 2 (or 2) - a raise of 3 gets you to 3NT, so it's really just weak hands like 4324 which would turn out bad (but would that be worse than the result after a reverse)?

I'd rather GIB just opens 1NT if it doesn't want to reverse though.
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#7 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-January-28, 17:47

View Postsmerriman, on 2018-January-28, 16:51, said:

I'd rather GIB just opens 1NT if it doesn't want to reverse though.
Yes 1N makes a lot of sense. , Gib doesn't seem to consider it's rebids. So you sometime get silly hands with 6-5 where it later decides not to reverse and a 5-card suit never gets mentioned.
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#8 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2018-January-28, 18:36

View Postsmerriman, on 2018-January-27, 17:48, said:

Ha. If you thought that was bad, basic GIB rebids 2 :/ I guess this is one of those edge cases when it thinks it's too weak to reverse (requires 18 total points) but doesn't take that into account when opening.


methinks GIBBO rarely reverses with such hands when it does not have a stiff.

vrock
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#9 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2018-January-30, 12:00

I have never seen GIB make a bid like this. I will have to take a look.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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