BBO Discussion Forums: How do you Play? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

How do you Play? An old chestnut

#1 User is offline   lamford 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,093
  • Joined: 2007-October-15

Posted 2018-January-19, 11:12


IMPs

West appears to have a lot of shape on this hand, especially when he does not lead the requested club, but leads the Q. How do you play?
'When I write a Law,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less.'
2

#2 User is offline   FelicityR 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 126
  • Joined: 2012-October-26
  • Gender:Female

Posted 2018-January-19, 11:30

Cash top s, run the s and look at the discards, then decide what to do next with the s :)
0

#3 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,692
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2018-January-19, 11:34

I'm going to cash K and A of hearts to get a count on how many W has then start running spades discarding clubs to determine how many diamonds he has.

If I think he has 3, I'll only cash 7 spades then table 10.

If I think he only has one or two, I'll cash the 8th one then lead a diamond.

If I think he has 4 I'll cash 7 spades and play for Kxxx/9x by running 10, if he covers, 8 is good, if not I cash the 8th spade then take the diamond finesse.

This is what I do at the table, I can see the solution Lamford wants I think to pick up x, QJ109xxxx, K9xx, but will leave this to others to figure out, it would be unfortunate to lose to x, QJ109xxx, Kxxxx.
3

#4 User is offline   lamford 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,093
  • Joined: 2007-October-15

Posted 2018-January-19, 13:20

View PostCyberyeti, on 2018-January-19, 11:34, said:

I'm going to cash K and A of hearts to get a count on how many W has then start running spades discarding clubs to determine how many diamonds he has.

If I think he has 3, I'll only cash 7 spades then table 10.

If I think he only has one or two, I'll cash the 8th one then lead a diamond.

If I think he has 4 I'll cash 7 spades and play for Kxxx/9x by running 10, if he covers, 8 is good, if not I cash the 8th spade then take the diamond finesse.

This is what I do at the table, I can see the solution Lamford wants I think to pick up x, QJ109xxxx, K9xx, but will leave this to others to figure out, it would be unfortunate to lose to x, QJ109xxx, Kxxxx.

I think you have the solution, and thanks for not posting it. I tend to think eight hearts are very likely for a 5H bid and my intended line would indeed get you in to Tom's Teletubbies column in the Telegraph ...
'When I write a Law,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less.'
0

#5 User is online   Tramticket 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 608
  • Joined: 2009-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kent (Near London)

Posted 2018-January-19, 13:34

Play king of hearts from dummy and over-take with the ace before running eight spades.

West must retain a heart, else you can discard the eight of hearts, take the diamond finesse, then cross back with the three of hearts to take a second diamond finesse.

West will come down to three diamonds and a heart. you discard the Jack of diamonds and then run the ten of diamonds.
1

#6 User is offline   gszes 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,164
  • Joined: 2011-February-12

Posted 2018-January-19, 15:20

View PostTramticket, on 2018-January-19, 13:34, said:

Play king of hearts from dummy and over-take with the ace before running eight spades.

West must retain a heart, else you can discard the eight of hearts, take the diamond finesse, then cross back with the three of hearts to take a second diamond finesse.

West will come down to three diamonds and a heart. you discard the Jack of diamonds and then run the ten of diamonds.


you realize of course the heart W must keep will invariably be LARGER than the 3 or the 2 thus preventing your 3 from becoming another entry:))))))))))))))))
1

#7 User is offline   smerriman 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 585
  • Joined: 2014-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2018-January-19, 15:49

View Postgszes, on 2018-January-19, 15:20, said:

you realize of course the heart W must keep will invariably be LARGER than the 3 or the 2 thus preventing your 3 from becoming another entry:))))))))))))))))

I think you misread - 3 was only an entry if West throws all hearts. If West keeps a heart, then he can only keep three diamonds, giving you the last 4 tricks in diamonds.

(Though you throw your heart on the last spade, not the J of diamonds).
Feel free to send me a friend challenge of any format as often as you like. I'll always accept :)
0

#8 User is offline   lamford 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,093
  • Joined: 2007-October-15

Posted 2018-January-19, 16:41

View PostTramticket, on 2018-January-19, 13:34, said:

Play king of hearts from dummy and over-take with the ace before running eight spades.

West must retain a heart, else you can discard the eight of hearts, take the diamond finesse, then cross back with the three of hearts to take a second diamond finesse.

West will come down to three diamonds and a heart. you discard the Jack of diamonds and then run the ten of diamonds.

Indeed. And if West has x QJxxxxx K9xxx none, you cannot make it anyway. So Cyber's objection is not entirely valid (although I would also have played his line at the table). Cyber would doubtless consider failing to find the overtaking play in hearts an ESEWoG (private joke!).
'When I write a Law,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less.'
0

#9 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,692
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2018-January-19, 16:49

View Postlamford, on 2018-January-19, 16:41, said:

Indeed. And if West has x QJxxxxx K9xxx none, you cannot make it anyway. So Cyber's objection is not entirely valid (although I would also have played his line at the table). Cyber would doubtless consider failing to find the overtaking play in hearts an ESEWoG (private joke!).


That's why the hand I gave deliberately didn't have 9 in it.
0

#10 User is offline   Lovera 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,123
  • Joined: 2014-January-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bari (ITALIA)
  • Interests:I'm also on YOUTUBE with a channel of music songs .

Posted 2018-January-19, 16:49

I think so: the last four cards on 9th tricks are an heart by W vs 2 in dummy and 3 in S and Kxx vs the diamond suits in N-S. When the last spade is lead and all clubs are away is pinched the heart J. If W discarting is heart, little for Q, Ace and 2 to 3 to realize the winning 10; if W discarting is a diamond the same as before and 8 to 10 to realize the 3 winner. En passant: i remember to have read in a book of my library about a problem of this type with a 10 winner by the problemist Pawle. Is this one ?
0

#11 User is offline   FelicityR 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 126
  • Joined: 2012-October-26
  • Gender:Female

Posted 2018-January-20, 00:47

The solution is subtle, though the hand is like something out of Victor Mollo's 'Bridge in the Menagerie' though the only small gripe I have is why would West want to bid 5 instead of 4 vulnerable with a partner who has yet to bid? Poor eyesight and pulled the wrong card from the bidding box, maybe? And as for South bidding 7NT? That's mad! More like 'Bridge at the Mad Hatter's Tea Party' Anyone for a scone? :)
0

#12 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,692
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2018-January-20, 04:31

View PostFelicityR, on 2018-January-20, 00:47, said:

The solution is subtle, though the hand is like something out of Victor Mollo's 'Bridge in the Menagerie' though the only small gripe I have is why would West want to bid 5 instead of 4 vulnerable with a partner who has yet to bid? Poor eyesight and pulled the wrong card from the bidding box, maybe? And as for South bidding 7NT? That's mad! More like 'Bridge at the Mad Hatter's Tea Party' Anyone for a scone? :)


Had his diamonds in with his hearts and didn't notice the duplicates.

Reminds me of a hand where I opened 1N on AKQJ, Jxx, Qx, xxxx or similar

But yes, I found the 5 bid odd at that vul, particularly oppiosite an unpassed partner
0

#13 User is offline   msjennifer 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 615
  • Joined: 2013-August-03
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Variable private
  • Interests:Cricket,Photography,Paediatrics and Community Medicine.

Posted 2018-January-20, 12:01

To me it appears to be a hand most likely by Commander Pawle or perhaps Dr.Clyde Love.
0

#14 User is offline   mawj 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 2017-July-26

Posted 2018-January-20, 15:37

Win the HA. Cash spades, pitching dummy's DQ and the 7 clubs. Play the D10, playing rho for the singleton or doubleton D9. If covered, cash HA and all good diamonds. If not covered, lead small diamond to dummy's DJ. Hopefully, the D9 was singleton or doubleton.
0

#15 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,692
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2018-January-20, 17:03

View Postmawj, on 2018-January-20, 15:37, said:

Win the HA. Cash spades, pitching dummy's DQ and the 7 clubs. Play the D10, playing rho for the singleton or doubleton D9. If covered, cash HA and all good diamonds. If not covered, lead small diamond to dummy's DJ. Hopefully, the D9 was singleton or doubleton.


This is inferior to both the solutions suggested above as you lose to 3-3 now.
0

#16 User is offline   mawj 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 2017-July-26

Posted 2018-January-20, 18:42

View PostCyberyeti, on 2018-January-20, 17:03, said:

This is inferior to both the solutions suggested above as you lose to
3-3 now.


If diamonds are 3-3, you cannot make the hand. You cannot squeeze him out of holding 3 diamonds and a heart and you have set up a heart trick for him, needlessly if you overtook the K with the A.

You'll know (assume) how many diamonds lho holds after running three spade tricks. And I think I should have cashed dummy's heart at trick one and my heart at trick two so I would know exactly how many hearts he has. I assumed he had 8 or 9 hearts, giving him 8 if rho followed, but that is a bit sloppy.
Given that he has 8 or 9 hearts (and you can eliminate 9 at trick 1 if rho follows) and if he has zero clubs, like we believe he has, you will know how many spades he holds by the 3rd round of that suit. And you will assume an exact count on the hand. If he has no spades, you are going down because you have a spade loser. If he follows only to 1 spade, he will have 4 diamonds and you can only pick the suit up if rho has the doubleton 9, and only then if you have unblocked the suit to hold the lead in your hand so you can repeat the finesse unless he covers. If he follows to 2 spades, he will have three diamonds and you are right that you don't need to unblock but you will go set because you will be locked in dummy after the first finesse and unblocking will not work because he can then cover the 10, setting up his partner's 9xx for the setting trick. You cannot squeeze him in hearts and diamonds because he can pitch all his hearts and when you cash your little heart in your hand, if it is good, you pitch dummy's small diamond, dummy's last three cards would be the diamond AQJ and a finesse could not pick him up because you will be locked in dummy, unable to repeat it, unless you have unblocked the suit. And if you unblocked with 3-3 diamonds, lho can cover the 10 with K9x and you lose to the 9 or he will cover the 10 if rho has the 9 and that will set up.
0

#17 User is offline   smerriman 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 585
  • Joined: 2014-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2018-January-20, 19:38

View Postmawj, on 2018-January-20, 18:42, said:

If diamonds are 3-3, you cannot make the hand. You cannot squeeze him out of holding 3 diamonds and a heart and you have set up a heart trick for him, needlessly if you overtook the K with the A.

If diamonds are 3-3, you have 14 tricks from the word go? 8 spades, 4 diamonds, and 2 hearts; of which overtaking one doesn't cost..
Feel free to send me a friend challenge of any format as often as you like. I'll always accept :)
0

#18 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,213
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2018-January-20, 23:27

View Postlamford, on 2018-January-19, 11:12, said:

MPs.West appears to have a lot of shape on this hand, especially when he does not lead the requested club, but leads the Q. How do you play?
Spoiler

0

#19 User is offline   Lovera 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,123
  • Joined: 2014-January-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bari (ITALIA)
  • Interests:I'm also on YOUTUBE with a channel of music songs .

Posted 2018-January-21, 03:59

We probably have to consider the hand 2 as indicated by nige1 but with the 9x in E and now squeeze works: if W retains an heart you pintch 2 in dummy having all diamond suit winner, if instead the heart is discarted you pintch J then little for Q and 2 to 3 in S then the 10 is lead ...
0

#20 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,692
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2018-January-21, 05:05

View PostLovera, on 2018-January-21, 03:59, said:

We probably have to consider the hand 2 as indicated by nige1 but with the 9x in E and now squeeze works: if W retains an heart you pintch 2 in dummy having all diamond suit winner, if instead the heart is discarted you pintch J then little for Q and 2 to 3 in S then the 10 is lead ...


Nigel's line is cold against this.

Spoiler

0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users