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BBO Express Automatic Ave Strategy...

#1 User is offline   kontoleon 

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Posted 2018-January-13, 05:09

I am not sure if is the correct place to post, but

Some players when they thing that lost(even if was wrong) try the AVE strategy.
He spent all time to play, so the system said Ave 50-50. Even if the the final score is clear(is already -1, or is very easy win) the system said 0!
i thing that in this case should be play 4 robot players until the hand is finished.

to be fair, i just tried one time, (after 5 times does to me) but i fail :(

Is no fun stategy and love this game...
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#2 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-January-13, 10:18

View Postkontoleon, on 2018-January-13, 05:09, said:

I am not sure if is the correct place to post, but

No, I've moved it. General Bridge Forum is for discussion of bridge not specific to BBO. General BBO Forum is for discussion of BBO.

Quote

Some players when they thing that lost(even if was wrong) try the AVE strategy.
He spent all time to play, so the system said Ave 50-50. Even if the the final score is clear(is already -1, or is very easy win) the system said 0!
i thing that in this case should be play 4 robot players until the hand is finished.

to be fair, i just tried one time, (after 5 times does to me) but i fail :(

Is no fun stategy and love this game...

This has been discussed many times before. I think it will automatically finish the hand with robots if there are less than 5 tricks left. If there are more, averages are assigned. But I could be remembering wrong, if so I hope Diana will correct me.

#3 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-January-13, 12:51

View Postbarmar, on 2018-January-13, 10:18, said:

This has been discussed many times before. I think it will automatically finish the hand with robots if there are less than 5 tricks left. If there are more, averages are assigned. But I could be remembering wrong, if so I hope Diana will correct me.


I don't see why robots shouldn't finish the hand no matter how many tricks are left. The extra time to play a few extra tricks is negligible.

And presumably BBO can time each side's time during a hand. If one side is stalling like kontoleon describes, automatically give them a penalty. Increase the penalty for additional delays.
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#4 User is offline   kontoleon 

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Posted 2018-January-14, 03:28

i can sent photos if needed. 2 from opponent, one from partener... (i don't care if the score said 50% or 100% but lost fun with out reason. At least is no very offen strategy
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#5 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-January-14, 05:13

View Postjohnu, on 2018-January-13, 12:51, said:

I don't see why robots shouldn't finish the hand no matter how many tricks are left. The extra time to play a few extra tricks is negligible.

So, after 1 trick played declarer gets to execute some sort of exotic squeeze or endplay.
Drops all offside Kings.
Gets all 2-way finesses right.

Same can hold true for defender so maybe it balances, but DD usually benefits declarer as they have more points.

Your right about time, probably would take only a few seconds.


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#6 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-January-14, 12:01

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-January-14, 05:13, said:

So, after 1 trick played declarer gets to execute some sort of exotic squeeze or endplay.
Drops all offside Kings.
Gets all 2-way finesses right.

Same can hold true for defender so maybe it balances, but DD usually benefits declarer as they have more points.


Defenders can also stall play so you could say the same thing about them.

You are assuming that GIB will declare double dummy. Sometimes GIB does play a hand very well, but more often, makes some hopeless play that even some beginners would get right. GIB does not routinely drop singleton kings (although defenders may lead a singleton king :P ) and does average on guessing 2 way finesses. In fact, sometimes GIB will have a much better line than guessing which way to finesse, but will take the finesse line because it never misguesses in simulations, and then realize that it's just a guess :D

In any case, the usual problem is that the contract is hopelessly bad (too high, too low, wrong denomination), or the cards are placed badly, or there was a misplay earlier in the hand.
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#7 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2018-January-14, 12:19

Agree with JohnU about time-limited events.
  • When the time-limit is exceeded for a board, Gib should play out all hands to completion. (In the normal way -- not double-dummy).
  • The software should monitor the time used by players, imposing appropriate slow play penalties.

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#8 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-January-14, 20:25

View Postjohnu, on 2018-January-14, 12:01, said:

You are assuming that GIB will declare double dummy. Sometimes GIB does play a hand very well, but more often, makes some hopeless play that even some beginners would get right. GIB

When hands are adjusted automatically before hand is completed, it is done double dummy seeing all hands. So, will get it right 100% of time.
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#9 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-January-14, 23:47

View Postjohnu, on 2018-January-13, 12:51, said:

I don't see why robots shouldn't finish the hand no matter how many tricks are left. The extra time to play a few extra tricks is negligible.

The idea is that if there are only a few tricks left, the robot play is likely to be similar to what the actual play would have been, since there aren't many decisions left. If it's still early in the hand, there's lots of different possible plays. It would be unfair to give a player who stalls the benefit of having robots play the whole hand for him.

#10 User is offline   kontoleon 

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Posted 2018-January-15, 09:17

Ok the main problem is not the unclear resold. But the very clear resold. (E.G opponent play 6th level is already -1) (two early defence trick) or if opponent bid (correct) high and is very easy(no mater from opponent cards) or after little long bid someone over bet, redouble! cheak hand (is clearly from many tricks down) and slow play from AVE.

in tought hand with some crasy finess, or crasy hold up(defence) game is fine to me(but usually is more rare the crasy defence combo from -1).
in fact we can put 2,5 min clock from each side,and no 5 min clock from full game.
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#11 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-January-15, 12:03

View Postbarmar, on 2018-January-14, 23:47, said:

The idea is that if there are only a few tricks left, the robot play is likely to be similar to what the actual play would have been, since there aren't many decisions left. If it's still early in the hand, there's lots of different possible plays. It would be unfair to give a player who stalls the benefit of having robots play the whole hand for him.


Maybe you have some statistics, but my guess is that a bad/hopeless/botched contract is the reason more often than not, so perfect play isn't going to help much. If you time the players (and/or keep track of how many hands they need the robots to complete the hand), you can "award" penalties to those who abuse the time limits.
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#12 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-January-15, 12:07

View Poststeve2005, on 2018-January-14, 20:25, said:

When hands are adjusted automatically before hand is completed, it is done double dummy seeing all hands. So, will get it right 100% of time.


My understanding is that there is a robot sitting in for all players. If things were settled double dummy, there is no need for robots to sit in.
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#13 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-January-16, 12:20

View Postkontoleon, on 2018-January-15, 09:17, said:

in fact we can put 2,5 min clock from each side,and no 5 min clock from full game.

I think it would be correct to divide the clock and also to monitor think time vs. number of cards left.
But never underestimate the determination and cunningness of cheats.
If (say) taking exactly 18 seconds each bid is the way to fool the system then they will figure that out and do it.
Luckily there are many less cheats on BBO than on some other online gaming forums.
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