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Bidding over an opposing pre-empt with a moderate strength 2-suiter bidding, balancing

#1 User is offline   Jyrki_63 

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Posted 2018-January-13, 03:47

Partner and I missed the boat on the following deal from our weekly club game (IMP pairs scoring).

North (dealer) opens 3D (white all).

Partner (East): K9865, A9875, A9, 8
Me (West): QJ32, 2, Q75, AKJ32

We both ended up passing. You can see this was not a success. 4S poses no problem. Even 6S makes with careful play as South has Qxxx in clubs and the opps spades split 22 (their diamonds split 71 and hearts 16, the pre-empter had the ace of spades).

But my question is about bidding. My partner's attitude to bidding is "healthy optimism", I'm a bit more cautious. Post-game he reproached himself gently for not getting into the act with 55. I'm inclined to absolve him. His suits are kinda ratty, and his hand is worth a single bid only (= at most). Picking the wrong suit could be a disaster if I have a weaker hand (this time I would probably try 3NT over partner's 3H, but that's coincidental). Doubling may have a better change in locating a fit, but he would not be thrilled by a club response from me. My problems are similar. 4C is an option in the pass-out seat, I guess. But four of a minor always has the air of trying to land on a dime. Doubling does not appeal much either, because it doesn't take Yogi Berra level foresight to look ahead and divine that partner might prefer hearts. And first doubling and then bidding a suit promises more than I have, I think. This time a double would make partner light up, and he would have bid a "pick-a-major 4D". But not all days are as sunny as this was.

Ok, so sometimes pre-empts work.

But let's get to my questions:

- How would you have bid this hand with your partner (do describe your methods, please)?
- In our post-game analysis I suggested that if we adopted equal level correction, then I could chance a double, and over the expected
heart bid introduce spades as a way of saying "sorry, pick another suit".
- But if playing ELC like that how should the partnership handle the cases of A) a stronger single suiter (if 3S rebid shows this how do I describe a hand with strong spades and some slam potential) B) when the partner of an ELC doubler has a hand that wants to bid game in on major opposite a normal TOX, but not opposite an ELC TOX hand as my actual hand.
- Are their other methods? Partner and I play Leaping Michaels over weak twos. A good way of describing stronger 2-suiters, but unsuitable for partner's actual hand.


Oh, we ended up winning anyway. The attendance was low, our optimism reaped rewards on other hands etc...

#2 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2018-January-13, 04:51

Well, your partner thought he was too weak to overcal 4. If you need a discussion, it is not about your methods but about the minimum values required to,make this sort of bid in different positions, vulnerability etc.

Also, you could consider non-leaping Michaels over 3-level preempts.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein

#3 User is offline   relknes 

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Posted 2018-January-13, 09:07

Playing ELC, there are several options:
Partner could have made a takeout double and pulled a 4 response to 4 (you would want to discuss when to use this and when to use Michaels. I would suggest ELC for minimums with both majors and Michaels for stronger hands over a preempt)
If partner passed, you could have made a balancing seat double and pulled 3 to 3, as you mentioned. You might even play that pulling partner out of a major at the 3 level shows a half-stopper in the opponent's suit (something like A, Kx, QJ, Qxx, Jxx, or something similar) giving partner the additional option of 3N if they have a half-stopper too.
Strong single suiters could be handled with an old fashioned strong jump-shift. There is no reason to preempt over a preempt, so what else are you using 4 and 4 for here? Game in hand (or very close) and a self-sustaining trump suit (any new suit by partner after this would be a cue bid, not a real suggestion for a different trump suit).

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