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Why bid Stayman with no 4 card major?

#1 User is offline   JT23456 

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Posted 2018-January-12, 11:55

I see it on BBO B 4 and Just Play hands - may not have a 4 card major.
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#2 User is online   MrAce 

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Posted 2018-January-12, 12:49

View PostJT23456, on 2018-January-12, 11:55, said:

I see it on BBO B 4 and Just Play hands - may not have a 4 card major.


Some people use 1 NT--2NT as a convention. Hence, they can not use it for invitation to 3 NT. These folks use Stayman followed by 2 NT as invitation, therefore their system does not require 4 card major for their Stayman.
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#3 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2018-January-12, 13:01

Besides the conventional 1nt-2nt issue, no way to invite without stayman (considered a methods weakness because revealing stuff about declarer's hand to defense), the main other time it crops up if you have no way to show a strong hand with a minor without going through stayman, which happens in SAYC as played in the booklet.

It depends mainly on what gadgets you select for 2+ responses.
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#4 User is offline   JT23456 

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Posted 2018-January-12, 19:01

Thanks. So this is in place of 2S for minor transfers.
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#5 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2018-January-12, 19:24

View PostJT23456, on 2018-January-12, 19:01, said:

Thanks. So this is in place of 2S for minor transfers.


Most commonly 2 is a transfer to and 2NT is a transfer to . Considering how frequently the bid is a weakness takeout, I wonder whether the downside is really worth it.
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#6 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2018-January-12, 20:24

View PostJT23456, on 2018-January-12, 19:01, said:

Thanks. So this is in place of 2S for minor transfers.

In GIB's case (since we're talking about Just Play etc) it plays 2 as Minor Suit Stayman, with 2NT as a minor suit transfer.
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#7 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2018-January-12, 21:26

View Postsmerriman, on 2018-January-12, 20:24, said:

In GIB's case (since we're talking about Just Play etc) it plays 2 as Minor Suit Stayman, with 2NT as a minor suit transfer.

Gib uses 2NT as a transfer to .
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#8 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2018-January-13, 11:44

Suppose you hold KQ4,,7,J9854,A1065 you naturally are worried about the Heart suit .So you bid 2C and if opener bids 2 H you can bid 3NT .If opener turns up with 8432 hearts then you may go down but at least you have done your job.The following is not applicable to this hand.
We use the bid of 2NT as a transfer to diamonds.and hence can not use that as an invitational bid.However we use 2S when we have no 4card major but have a stopper in both majors .If partner bids 2NaT showing a minimum hand we pass when our intention was to invite.If opener bids 3Clubs showing a maximum hand then we bid 3NT or pass if that was our intention to play in 3C.Of course this has a slight drawback in that we can not use 3C as Super acceptance of club
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#9 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2018-January-13, 11:44

Duplicate.Deleted.
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#10 User is offline   miamijd 

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Posted 2018-January-14, 14:20

View Postmsjennifer, on 2018-January-13, 11:44, said:

Suppose you hold KQ4,,7,J9854,A1065 you naturally are worried about the Heart suit .So you bid 2C and if opener bids 2 H you can bid 3NT .If opener turns up with 8432 hearts then you may go down but at least you have done your job.The following is not applicable to this hand.
We use the bid of 2NT as a transfer to diamonds.and hence can not use that as an invitational bid.However we use 2S when we have no 4card major but have a stopper in both majors .If partner bids 2NaT showing a minimum hand we pass when our intention was to invite.If opener bids 3Clubs showing a maximum hand then we bid 3NT or pass if that was our intention to play in 3C.Of course this has a slight drawback in that we can not use 3C as Super acceptance of club


In connection with the use of 2S range-finder or clubs, you should consider using either 2NT or 3C to ask for five-card majors.. Let's say you use 3C (which is more common). In that case, 3C asks only for a five-card major (if you were interested in four-card majors, you would use regular Stayman). Partner will bid 3M with a five-card major, or 3D without one. After 3D, a bid of 3M can indicate either (A) shortness in the bid suit or (B) a three-card fragment with shortness in the other major. Either way is playable, but I prefer (B), because it makes it tougher for the opponents to double your short suit for a lead.

So on your hand, the bidding might go:

1NT 3C(1)
3D(2) 3S(3)

(1) five card major ask
(2) no five card major
(3) Short hearts; likely 3-1 in the majors

If opener had shown 5 hearts, responder would have bid 3NT> If opener had shown 5 spades, responder would have bid 4S. Since opener showed neither, responder highlights the heart shortness, and now opener can take the appropriate action.

Cheers,
mike
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