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how to bid

#21 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2018-January-01, 09:24

Well, when there is a 4-4 heart fit and one hand has a void, it seems that someone at some point should bid hearts.

In the Soloway style of jump shifts, as played for example by the bots, it is impossible to find the hearts after the 2S bid. But nobody, including me, likes the 2S bid. So suppose it starts 1C-1S -1NT, a reasonable beginning. Now the problem is, as it so often is on bbo, that probably the partnership has not discussed much of anything about what now means what. If we are playing 2 way nmf after 1NT, or x-y-z, then 2D is an artificial game force. Opener should now describe his hand. He has four hearts, he does not have three spades, the description is straightforward, he bids 2H. He has already described his hand as fairly balanced and presumably 12-14 highs, his partner has asked for a further description, so he gives it. Now some play that with three spades and four hearts opener first shows the three spades, some play that he first shows the four hearts. I have a slight preference for first showing the hearts, but my real preference is for knowing which it is that we are doing.

After responder learns of the 4-4 heart fit it is basically up to him to select how high they go.

If the pair is playing standard nmf rather than 2-way then 2D is still artificial and the response is still 2H, but we are not yet in a game force. It would be good to have agreements here as to what happens next. The hands fit very well and the hearts break 3-2 so it makes 7H. But only experts, maybe not even experts, can find out about the fitting spade K, the fitting diamond Q, and the club A for pitching the long diamond. And no bidding system uncovers the fact that the hearts are splitting. But after 1C - 1S - 1NT - 2D - 2H it should not be that tough for responder to choose 6H, maybe just by jumping to 6H.
Ken
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#22 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2018-January-01, 12:38

Given this is the Intermediate/Advanced forum I think the real point is the difference between a 1 and 2 response.

It goes against the grain to bid low and slow with such a powerhouse but that is exactly what you must do and not just with this one because of the many possibilities of strain.

Just make forcing bids (which 1 is) and gather clues. If opener rebids 1nt, then you can decide on system, ie. some kind of checkback, xyz, whatever. If they bid something else, know what is forcing next, ie. a jump to 3.

Strain first, level second is the principle violated by the 2 bid here. My partnership does play this bid as strong but specifically showing a suit that will play for 1 loser (well 99%) opposite a stiff petunia satisfying strain concerns.

Good quality spades plus clubs or Soloway JS are also popular but also cater to strain first, at least to be determined in the nearest possible future.
When Ghandi was asked what he thought about western civilization he said: I think it would be a good idea.
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#23 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2018-January-02, 07:27

View PostWinstonm, on 2017-December-31, 16:24, said:

I think 2H is OK - I considered it - but the hand is so perfectly NT-ish with cards in every suit, that 2N seems to me a better call.

Thanks. 7N does indeed make ;) But my partner would certainly expect me to show the hearts and would be happy to raise them and start cue-bidding at the ideal level.
Our bidding would probably go:
1C - 1S
1N - 2D
2H - 3H
3S - 3N
4C - 4D
4H - 4S
4N - 6H
P
where 3N shows another control in S and 4N shows an even number of keycards.
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#24 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2018-January-02, 07:33

View Postpescetom, on 2018-January-02, 07:27, said:

Thanks. 7N does indeed make ;) But my partner would certainly expect me to show the hearts and would be happy to raise them and start cue-bidding at the ideal level.
Our bidding would probably go:
1C - 1S
1N - 2D
2H - 3H
3S - 3N
4C - 4D
4H - 4S
4N - 6H
P
where 3N shows another control in S and 4N shows an even number of keycards.


Yup, 7N is a terrible contract, 7 is very decent but < 70% so not 100% clear you want to be in it, but I think I would want to be.
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#25 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2018-January-02, 11:08

View PostCyberyeti, on 2018-January-02, 07:33, said:

Yup, 7N is a terrible contract, 7 is very decent but < 70% so not 100% clear you want to be in it, but I think I would want to be.


I read somewhere, a long time ago, that grand slams should be bid on a 75%+ basis. Though if you bid a grand on a 4-4 fit, you deserve the trumps to behave.
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#26 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2018-January-04, 00:07

As nearly everyone has pointed out, the initial response should be 1 rather then a strong jump shift 2 .

The responding hand is certainly strong enough for a strong jump shift, but there's a problem on making a strong jump shift on this type of hand. There are several possible suits which could be the right place to play. Because strong jump shifts takes up so much bidding space, it's very difficult if not impossible to explore for fit in a third or fourth suit. Therefore, strong jump shifts are best used to convey the following -- "Partner I have a very strong hand where slam may be possible, but the final contract will be in your suit, my suit or NT."

After a 1 response, you can keep showing a stronger and stronger hand by continuing to make forcing bids. Partner will eventually get the idea that you have a big hand.

After a 1 response in this auction, opener normal rebid will be 1 NT. Here agreements and methods can diverge considerably among players. If 2 would be forcing over 1 NT that would be a natural next bid. In that case, the auction should go --

1 - 1
1 NT - 2
3 - ?

Now with a normal game going hand, it would be normal for responder to just bid 4 , right? So what would 4 be? It would suggest slam interest and a control. Opener with a minimum probably would just continue 4 . So after ...

........4
4 - ?

How about one more try with a 4 bid showing a control? You'd be essentially saying "I heard your 4 bid. I have a control and still think slam is a possibility opposite a minumum." If opener finally just continues with 5 , then you can pass knowing you did all you could to prod partner toward slam. But I'd expect most openers to come alive over 4 . They can see no losers with the possibility of setting up the 5+ card suit for discards, know there's a control in the suit and have a fitting honor, and they have a control. If they use RKCB at this point, you could make the appropriate agreed response to show an odd number of key cards and a void.

There are other possible sequences especially since most players now use some form of NMF over 1 NT. (BTW, I know excellent pair who uses NMF and still plays 2 as forcing over 1 NT.) A typical NMF auction might be --

1 - 1
1 NT - 2
2 - ?

Like the previous auction with just a game going hand in , responder would just bid 4 . But if 3 here is forcing, you could bid 3 presumably showing a suit and over opener's 3 NT call, bid 4 showing a hand too good to just jump to game, that is, slam interest. But this time since are a "real" suit, responder is implying shortness.
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