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how to bid

#1 User is offline   patroclo 

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Posted 2017-December-30, 01:40


At my table the bidding was 1c. 2s. 2nt. 3d. 3nt. pass
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#2 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2017-December-30, 01:48

Playing strong jump shifts, I would never bid 2. The suit isn't good enough, there's no major fit for clubs, and hearts or diamonds may be the best trump suit which probably can't be found after a jump shift in spades.

A simple 1 response lets you investigate other contracts.
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#3 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2017-December-30, 02:55

View Postjohnu, on 2017-December-30, 01:48, said:

Playing strong jump shifts, I would never bid 2. The suit isn't good enough, there's no major fit for clubs, and hearts or diamonds may be the best trump suit which probably can't be found after a jump shift in spades.

A simple 1 response lets you investigate other contracts.


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#4 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2017-December-30, 03:44

not 2, 1. new minor force or 2 as gf by responder after 1 - 1 - 1NT - 2 and opener bids 2 and 4/4 fit found
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#5 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-December-30, 08:11

Only REALLY bad players bid 2 on this sort of hand. We play a weak no trump, but adapting our methods to strong NT, we would bid:

1-1
1N-2(checkback)
2-4(voidwood, 3 would be forcing)
4(1)-4N(I have 2 of AKQ, do you have the other)
6(yes and A)-6(I don't quite have enough to bid grand, any help in diamonds, I have 2 of AKQ)
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#6 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2017-December-30, 10:40

The idea of a strong jump shift is to accomplish 2 things. first is to convey great power and 2n is to give the partnership a safe haven at the game level in case slam aspirations do not pan out. The N hand has more than enough power for a strong jump shift but the spade suit is a far cry from what it needs to be for the second consideration to be met. The suit quality should be such that there is at most 1 loser in the suit opposite a small singleton. KQJTxx should be pretty much the minimum standard
for such a bid. The jump shift takes up a LOT of room and so the message should be quite strong. Do not waste space jumping around when the partnership has no clue what strain is the best much less how high.

Back to the bidding after 2s I would bid 3h with the south hand rather than 2n with that speculative dia holding. This bid does not promise radical distribution merely takes time to point out a potential flaw in the argument for playing NT. With more radical distribution I would easily choose 3c over 2h.
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#7 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-December-30, 12:07

View Postjohnu, on 2017-December-30, 01:48, said:

Playing strong jump shifts, I would never bid 2. The suit isn't good enough, there's no major fit for clubs, and hearts or diamonds may be the best trump suit which probably can't be found after a jump shift in spades.

A simple 1 response lets you investigate other contracts.

it is considered bad to js on 2-suiter never mind this 3-suiter with a void in partner's suit.
So even if better still would be wrong to js.


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#8 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2017-December-30, 18:23

2S was an atrocity. I like strong JS but only using the Soloway method. I suggest you learn and implement it.
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#9 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2017-December-30, 18:23

Delete duplicate
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#10 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-December-31, 06:32

Looking at the N/S hands 6 is feasible but how to bid it?
Difficult after a 1response,almost impossible after a 2 reply.
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#11 User is offline   Joe_Old 

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Posted 2017-December-31, 09:40

I don't like the 2 bid either. But, the last chance to salvage the deal was that 3NT call. Why not 3? Hopefully North will take it as a suit (partner, do you want to play a 4-3 fit? Was 3 diamonds intended to be NMF?). It's still an awful auction.
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#12 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-December-31, 10:28

1C-1S
1N-2D (x,y,z)
2N-3H
4H-4S
5C-5D
5S-6D
6H-p
Don't vote Republican; instead, send them your "thoughts and prayers".
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#13 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2017-December-31, 11:47

View PostWinstonm, on 2017-December-31, 10:28, said:

1C-1S
1N-2D (x,y,z)
2N-3H
4H.....


As I understand XYZ, 2D is a game force requiring opener to continue to describe.
What would be wrong with a natural 2H reply instead of 2NT?
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#14 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-December-31, 16:24

View Postpescetom, on 2017-December-31, 11:47, said:

As I understand XYZ, 2D is a game force requiring opener to continue to describe.
What would be wrong with a natural 2H reply instead of 2NT?


I think 2H is OK - I considered it - but the hand is so perfectly NT-ish with cards in every suit, that 2N seems to me a better call.
Don't vote Republican; instead, send them your "thoughts and prayers".
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#15 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2017-December-31, 20:49

View PostWinstonm, on 2017-December-31, 16:24, said:

I think 2H is OK - I considered it - but the hand is so perfectly NT-ish with cards in every suit, that 2N seems to me a better call.


This is insane. 2H is the systemic call. It allows you to agree hearts at the 3 level, forcing, allowing cue bidding room, which is hugely useful. If you bid 2nt, responder is supposed to proceed under the assumption that you DON'T have 4 hearts, or 3 spades, and will look for diamond fit not heart fit. Future heart bids should be interpreted as cues, not length.

You already made a call that described your hand as NT-ish: 1nt!!
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#16 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-December-31, 20:57

View PostStephen Tu, on 2017-December-31, 20:49, said:

This is insane. 2H is the systemic call. It allows you to agree hearts at the 3 level, forcing, allowing cue bidding room, which is hugely useful. If you bid 2nt, responder is supposed to proceed under the assumption that you DON'T have 4 hearts, or 3 spades, and will look for diamond fit not heart fit. Future heart bids should be interpreted as cues, not length.

You already made a call that described your hand as NT-ish: 1nt!!


Don't hold back. Tell us what you really think. ;)

As for me, I like to differentiate in this auction between Kx, Axxx, xxx, AQxx - which would be 2H, and Kx, Axxx, Qxx A10xx.

Not only are we trying to bid slams but also trying to find the right game when partner holds: AQJxx, Kxx, xx, KQx.
Don't vote Republican; instead, send them your "thoughts and prayers".
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#17 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2017-December-31, 22:24

View PostWinstonm, on 2017-December-31, 20:57, said:

Don't hold back. Tell us what you really think. ;)

As for me, I like to differentiate in this auction between Kx, Axxx, xxx, AQxx - which would be 2H, and Kx, Axxx, Qxx A10xx.

Not only are we trying to bid slams but also trying to find the right game when partner holds: AQJxx, Kxx, xx, KQx.


I don't see how bidding 2nt helps you in this endeavor. 2nt robs you of significant bidding space. If you bid 2H, responder can bid 2s or 2nt, then subsequently bid suits as stoppers implying worry about diamonds, or bid 3d showing like half a stopper. Opener might also decline to bid 2nt over 2s holding just xxx in diamonds. If you bid 2nt, responder has fewer choices to work with, and can't:
- distinguish between 5 spades/6 spades, no longer having choice of 2s / 3s
- have 3h show a FIFTH heart, 5-5 shape which people might assume on your auction without prior discussion.
- bid 3h showing worry about diamonds when only holding a heart fragment, since you might raise
- bid 3c with just club honors, not length in clubs since normally this shows 4, 5+ clubs and looking for 4s/5c/6c.
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#18 User is offline   xbabarx 

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Posted 2017-December-31, 23:25

Playing strong jump shift, after p 2s I would bid 3H to show 4 cards Heart suit but no 3 s
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#19 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2018-January-01, 04:11

Am I the only one to believe that after the atrocious 2S bis, S with 2 Aces and Kx facing the supposedly semi-sufficient suit of partner should just fit and let things go from there?
Even 7S make.
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#20 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-January-01, 07:41

View PostStephen Tu, on 2017-December-31, 22:24, said:

I don't see how bidding 2nt helps you in this endeavor. 2nt robs you of significant bidding space. If you bid 2H, responder can bid 2s or 2nt, then subsequently bid suits as stoppers implying worry about diamonds, or bid 3d showing like half a stopper. Opener might also decline to bid 2nt over 2s holding just xxx in diamonds. If you bid 2nt, responder has fewer choices to work with, and can't:
- distinguish between 5 spades/6 spades, no longer having choice of 2s / 3s
- have 3h show a FIFTH heart, 5-5 shape which people might assume on your auction without prior discussion.
- bid 3h showing worry about diamonds when only holding a heart fragment, since you might raise
- bid 3c with just club honors, not length in clubs since normally this shows 4, 5+ clubs and looking for 4s/5c/6c.


That's certainly possible. The issue to me, though, is that partner's bid asks for 3-card support or, lacking that, a further clarification of your hand. The only decision to make is in how to describe the hand. This really is an issue of shape versus holdings - shape, as you use it, may be better - but it is not the only method.
Don't vote Republican; instead, send them your "thoughts and prayers".
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