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Your bid?

#1 User is offline   xbabarx 

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Posted 2017-December-27, 09:08

IMPs- favourable vulnerability
You hold
Q10x- KJ9864-Q10xx- clubs void

Partner open 1 Hearts, next 1 Spades. 1H-(1S)-?

Your bid and why?
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-December-27, 09:17

If I have 4 available for this I'll use it means partner will recognise something like void, A10xxxx, AKJx, xxx as absolute gold dust.
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#3 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-December-27, 09:58

del didn't realize 1S an overcall
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#4 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2017-December-27, 11:27

A simple 2 cue leaves lots of room to get clues as to how high to go and I'm not worried about higher level spade bidding by red opps.

That would just prove spade shortness with partner, give them a chance to cue or show strength (or not) etc. A new suit by partner after 2, should it go pass is a help suit game try on my card (or whatever you play) which could help identify where their side cards are.
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#5 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2017-December-27, 11:41

A simple 2 cue leaves lots of room to get clues as to how high to go and I'm not worried about higher level spade bidding by red opps.

That would just prove spade shortness with partner, give them a chance to cue or show strength (or not) etc. A new suit by partner after 2, should it go pass is a help suit game try on my card (or whatever you play) which could help identify where their side cards are.
When Ghandi was asked what he thought about western civilization he said: I think it would be a good idea.
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-December-27, 11:46

View Poststeve2005, on 2017-December-27, 09:58, said:

4? Partner is going to think you have a big hand with 4 spades like AQTx AKJ986 KTxx void. or many others
You have 1 King and no Aces and only 3 , no reason to get excited yet.
Your going to often be in 6 with no play or 5 -1.


I think you misunderstand the auction or I do, partner has the hearts not the spades.

From the OP PARTNER OPENS 1 - NEXT HAND BIDS 1
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#7 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2017-December-27, 12:14

If only there was a hand diagram tool one could use to avoid the ambiguity...

Assuming it is 1H-(1S), I think both 4H and 4C are viable options. 2S/2NT feel like a misdescription with this ODR - so many hearts but no A/K elsewhere. One point in favour of 4C is that as 3451 or similar is a common shape for the SPL, partner will consider it's likely you hold a few spades and stay low if he doesn't have a shortage (or big extras).

ahydra
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#8 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-December-27, 17:20

4H
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#9 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2017-December-27, 18:09

View PostWinstonm, on 2017-December-27, 17:20, said:

4H

Me too. And I go to 5H if they bid 4S.
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#10 User is offline   xbabarx 

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Posted 2017-December-27, 21:10

Some play 2NT as limit raise in competition (only in majors, in minors 2NT natural)
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#11 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2017-December-28, 06:07

There are so many different hands where either 2 or 4 or 4 could be the right bid I am unsure you could choose between them. It all depends on what happens next.

I do like 2 as it possibly provides time to explore, but I don't like it as it also gives the opponents time to discover their possible fits.

I do like 4 as it is a splinter, but I don't like it as the hand leans towards pre-emptive values than control-based values.

I do like 4 as the bid is pre-emptive, but I don't like it as the hand is too strong for a pre-empt.

At this vulnerability I prefer 4 and be prepared to bid 5 over their presumed 4 bid. But which way the bidding goes after a 4 bid is anyone's guess.
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#12 User is offline   GrahamJson 

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Posted 2017-December-28, 07:01

You could try “walking the dog” - starting with 3H and then advancing one bid at a time hoping to buy the contract in 4H or 5H, maybe even doubled. Or perhaps start with 3NT, rescuing later into 4H. However I must admit that on these sorts of hands I always end up taking the simple route, in this case 4H. It usually works as well as anything and it at least puts partner in the picture. Of course 4C could lead to a great 6H contract, but I think your goal should be to make game in hearts, which will probably score better than defending a high level spade sacrifice.
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#13 User is offline   Joe_Old 

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Posted 2017-December-28, 11:19

4.

At this point your only proven assets are the K and void. By pre-empting you use up more room and you may not be giving up the void if your methods allow a 6 response to RKCB to show a void and one keycard (odd number of keycards that must be one after a pre-empt).

While bidding the splinter is tempting, 4th seat (advancer) now has the option of showing a suit cheaply by doubling. A splinter will map out the distribution while the opponents are bidding and if the opponents declare. (Meaning, advancer has a tougher bid over 4 than 4, and your distribution is more ambiguous with a 4 bid). Keep in mind that it is not clear whose hand it is, or what level or strain is best for either side. Picture the opponents making six, or (unlikely) seven in either black suit.

The downside is that 4 on this hand makes it harder for partner to judge whether to sacrifice because s/he won't expect your possible trick on defense
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#14 User is offline   lmhaze 

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Posted 2017-December-28, 12:39

Given that you wish to reach at least 4 h why not bid 2 diamonds first giving p an indication of card strength
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#15 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-December-28, 16:51

IMO, you hold a weak hand that is strong in playing strength - not a splinter and not a limit raise but a 4H bid. If opps compete with 4S and partner bids 5D, I would then try for 7H with a 6C cue bid.
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#16 User is offline   xbabarx 

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Posted 2017-December-29, 07:04

Ok as opener you hold
Ax-AT9xx-AKJxx-8
Imps favourable vulnerability
You open 1H-(1s)-4h-(4s);
Now what and why?
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#17 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2017-December-29, 08:14

Imps (Assuming one of the 9s is 7)
Partner's 4 is fine although I slightly prefer a 4 splinter. Now, over RHO's 4, it's hard to be objective with sight of both hands :( I guess
1. 5 = CUE. Suggests lead.
2. X = PEN. Opps are vul.
3. 5 = CUE.
4. 5 = NAT
5. 6 = NAT. Optimistic.

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#18 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2017-December-29, 08:52

View Postxbabarx, on 2017-December-29, 07:04, said:

Ok as opener you hold
Ax-AT9xx-AKJxx-8
Imps favourable vulnerability
You open 1H-(1s)-4h-(4s);
Now what and why?


Opponents have bid a confident 4 vulnerable so expect to make it. At this vulnerability. as an opponent, I would be scared to sacrifice. You know partner will have a minimum of four card support, more likely five, so chances are one opponent will be void. You know partner won't have much in the way of defensive tricks as he bid 4 direct. I agree with nige1 suggestion of 5, a cue/lead directional bid. You expect to make 5 but there is not any guarantee 4 is down. [You have no clue of knowing that partner has QTx in spades]
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#19 User is offline   xbabarx 

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Posted 2017-December-29, 09:34

View Postnige1, on 2017-December-29, 08:14, said:

Imps (Assuming one of the 9s is 7)
Partner's 4 is fine although I slightly prefer a 4 splinter. Now, over RHO's 4, it's hard to be objective with sight of both hands :( I guess
1. 5 = CUE. Suggests lead.
2. X = PEN. Opps are vul.
3. 5 = CUE.
4. 5 = NAT
5. 6 = NAT. Optimistic.



N voids in club ...
Q10xx in Diamonds
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#20 User is offline   Joe_Old 

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Posted 2017-December-29, 10:11

View Postxbabarx, on 2017-December-29, 07:04, said:

Ok as opener you hold
Ax-AT9xx-AKJxx-8
Imps favourable vulnerability
You open 1H-(1s)-4h-(4s);
Now what and why?


Consider what you "know". Responder has 5+ and usually a stiff or void. Given the bidding, you expect responder's shape to be something like 1-5-(3-4). Advancer has bid a vulnerable game, meaning you expect his distribution to be something like 5-1-1-6, because you expect advancer to have an outside source of tricks. It doesn't matter that a lot of this is wrong, it's the information that you have and you have to act on it because passing is not an option.

If responder has the shape suggested, then 6 is on a finesse, at worst. A 5 bid from opener, on this layout, will tell responder that opener has a strong 2 suiter, and responder should cuebid 6. Now the problem will be to stay out of the unmakeable 7 (opener will have to re-evaluate responder's probable distribution, decide whether responder has a void or A, and how many responder holds).

A RKCB 4NT from opener, if methods permit, can allow responder to show 1 keycard and the void, which should tip off opener that responder has 2+ and 4+ . Assuming that overcaller passes, opener will then know to stop in 6. Opener will also know that the deal is extremely distributional (after re-evaluating responders probable distribution), and that s/he can't count on any tricks on defense other than the A.

Of course, the opponents will know all this, too.



Hold on - I just read the new post - DIAMOND VOID? Originally wasn't it a Club Void?

Forget everything I've posted, I'm confused.

This post has been edited by Joe_Old: 2017-December-29, 10:14

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