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bidding a long suit

#1 User is offline   portia2 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 07:43

What's the best way to bid this hand?
N is dealer. scoring mp
vul: none
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 08:50

Bear in mind the points are 20:20 and the opps have a lot of spades and diamonds, so a definitive auction would be silly given that you don't know how opps will bid.

The question is how many hearts to open (if any, I have been known to pass hands like this) also vulnerability is important.
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#3 User is online   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 08:56

Might open 4NT. Not ideal, but finding a black ace you could cross your fingers.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#4 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 09:23

I open 1. No idea who is going to bid what, don't know how strong partner is. How it develops is up to the opponents.
Pass could be tricky, because it denies this hand, and if partner later keeps taking my hearts out, I could not blame him.
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#5 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 09:30

I am a simple soul: 4H.

Depending on vulnerability, you are not stopping below 6H, but sometimes,
you are allowed to play 4H / 5H.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#6 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 09:53

There is no way to bid this scientifically. There just isn't a bid for edit 10 solid hearts and nothing else.
There are less bids available than possible hands and this is one left out.
Just do your best.
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#7 User is online   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 10:33

View Poststeve2005, on 2017-December-20, 09:53, said:

There is no way to bid this scientifically. There just isn't a bid for 9 solid hearts and nothing else.
There are less bids available than possible hands and this is one left out.
Just do your best.


Well, if you have a South African Texas bid, say 3NT or 4 you might excite a partner holding an ace and a king.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#8 User is offline   bravejason 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 13:07

You could try 5 hearts. That'll surely be interpreted as a slam try. The drawback is that responder might (will!) assume opener has 11 sure tricks and bid one too many. As South, I'd probably assume North had 11 sure tricks because who pre-empts to 5 of a major?

I'm reading this on my phone and I only see 9 hearts for North and 12 cards for North. I'm assuming North actually has a 10th heart (the 2 or 3) to bring hand total to 13 cards.
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#9 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 13:13

View Postbravejason, on 2017-December-20, 13:07, said:

You could try 5 hearts. That'll surely be interpreted as a slam try. The drawback is that responder might (will!) assume opener has 11 sure tricks and bid one too many. As South, I'd probably assume North had 11 sure tricks because who pre-empts to 5 of a major?

I'm reading this on my phone and I only see 9 hearts for North and 12 cards for North. I'm assuming North actually has a 10th heart (the 2 or 3) to bring hand total to 13 cards.


Partner will NEVER bid 6, 5 says you have a long heart suit headed by QJ and the nuts outside and simply to bid up by the number of top hearts you have which will be none.
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#10 User is offline   portia2 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 16:58

View Postbravejason, on 2017-December-20, 13:07, said:

You could try 5 hearts. That'll surely be interpreted as a slam try. The drawback is that responder might (will!) assume opener has 11 sure tricks and bid one too many. As South, I'd probably assume North had 11 sure tricks because who pre-empts to 5 of a major?

I'm reading this on my phone and I only see 9 hearts for North and 12 cards for North. I'm assuming North actually has a 10th heart (the 2 or 3) to bring hand total to 13 cards.

You're correct. N has 10 hearts. The 3 is not showing on the diagram.
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#11 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 21:54

hand with 10 top ok. with 8 top and nothing outside suit white, mp, i would open 4 preempt. so 10 top and nothing white playing mp an idea say to me open 6 pre-empt. whether this is good bid bad bid i cannot say but opponents now have a guess both with bid or lead
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#12 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 22:08

View PostVampyr, on 2017-December-20, 10:33, said:

Well, if you have a South African Texas bid, say 3NT or 4 you might excite a partner holding an ace and a king.

Still nobody will think 10 .
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#13 User is offline   portia2 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 01:15

Faute de mieux, could you not open 2, planning to rebid 4?
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#14 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 01:25

Shall open 2C and watch developments.IFopoonents dont intervene and partner bids two D then an unopposed auction will go,
2C- 2D. 3H asks for specific Ace/Aces.3S shows spade Ace ,.3NT asks specific Kings and 4 C shows the club King..
3H 3S
3NT 4C
6H
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#15 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 04:01

The well bid slam went down on a club lead.A club was led to the Ace and a club ruff meant down one of the top.
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#16 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 07:06

View Postmsjennifer, on 2017-December-21, 01:25, said:

Shall open 2C and watch developments.IFopoonents dont intervene

You are joking, right? How many times have you opened a 10 card suit at a low level and not seen anything but green from the opps?

If you do open 2, what is your plan if it goes something like 2 - (3) - P - (6), where partner's pass showed values? Are you going to bid 7 in front of partner? Or make a forcing pass? If you FP and partner doubles, are you feeling comfortable about sitting?

I think Vampyr has a good case for a 3NT or 4 opening if that is on our card. Failing that, there are good arguments for any number of hearts with the possible exceptions of 2, 3 and 7. Hands like this tend to be much more about tactical opportunity than any scientific method. Indeed there is a good argument for varying one's way of handling them, sometimes preempting high, sometimes using a slam-try opening and sometimes walking the dog. I could be wrong but I doubt anyone here could definitively say that a particular approach was absolutely the best, even Fred, Mike or Justin.
(-: Zel :-)
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#17 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 07:11

View Postmsjennifer, on 2017-December-21, 04:01, said:

The well bid slam went down on a club lead.A club was led to the Ace and a club ruff meant down one of the top.

Were you at the table then? I do not see a 6-1 under portia's hand record history.
(-: Zel :-)
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#18 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 07:13

With a long suit and little to no defense the first thing to think about is how high can one preempt. If we are bidding in a vacuum then going slow may make some sense but those pesky opps are always looking for a reason to enter the bidding. Look at the vulnerability. Ten tricks is a LOT of tricks that means the 5 level will almost always be safe (that means no more than down 1 no matter the vulnerability). This will not be popular but I suggest opening 4n (yes even with a void). Bridge is a game of %
with some science creeping in via slam bidding. This hand needs aces for slam and IMHO asking for them immediately is the best way to go. This is a straight blackwood since there is no agreed trump suit. If p shows 0 or 1 I suggest stopping in 5h. If p shows 2 the odds heavily favor us making 6h and if p shows 3 bid 5n asking for specific kings (If partner shows the club K bid 7n (at imps 7h is always ok) else bid 7h. The 4n bid gives us a LOT of preemption and still gives us a decent chance at bidding slam when it is there. It is NOT perfect but little else in bridge is perfect. Another benefit of the 4n bid is that we might be able to x the opps (if/when they compete) if we know how many aces partner has.

If the question is how to bid these two SPECIFIC hands I would not worry about it too much. Note that even if our side managed to reach a makeable 6h. All that bidding space might make it far too easy for the opps to find 7d which is far cheaper (no matter the vulnerability) for them than letting us play 6h. Even us stopping in 5h (like my suggestion above when partner shows 1 ace) might keep the opps silent and we would luckily wind up making 5 when the opps take the first 2 tricks off the top.
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#19 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 08:36

View Postgszes, on 2017-December-21, 07:13, said:

With a long suit and little to no defense the first thing to think about is how high can one preempt. If we are bidding in a vacuum then going slow may make some sense but those pesky opps are always looking for a reason to enter the bidding. Look at the vulnerability. Ten tricks is a LOT of tricks that means the 5 level will almost always be safe (that means no more than down 1 no matter the vulnerability). This will not be popular but I suggest opening 4n (yes even with a void). Bridge is a game of %
with some science creeping in via slam bidding. This hand needs aces for slam and IMHO asking for them immediately is the best way to go. This is a straight blackwood since there is no agreed trump suit. If p shows 0 or 1 I suggest stopping in 5h. If p shows 2 the odds heavily favor us making 6h and if p shows 3 bid 5n asking for specific kings (If partner shows the club K bid 7n (at imps 7h is always ok) else bid 7h. The 4n bid gives us a LOT of preemption and still gives us a decent chance at bidding slam when it is there. It is NOT perfect but little else in bridge is perfect. Another benefit of the 4n bid is that we might be able to x the opps (if/when they compete) if we know how many aces partner has.

If the question is how to bid these two SPECIFIC hands I would not worry about it too much. Note that even if our side managed to reach a makeable 6h. All that bidding space might make it far too easy for the opps to find 7d which is far cheaper (no matter the vulnerability) for them than letting us play 6h. Even us stopping in 5h (like my suggestion above when partner shows 1 ace) might keep the opps silent and we would luckily wind up making 5 when the opps take the first 2 tricks off the top.

This being a forum for intermediates and advanced ,I fully agree with you,Sir.Your last paragraph is absolutely clear.
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#20 User is offline   maartenxq 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 08:46

View Postportia2, on 2017-December-20, 07:43, said:

What's the best way to bid this hand?
N is dealer. scoring mp
vul: none

Manifold dutch champion Kees Tammens once told me: you cannot ask me how tobid 9 card suits. I suppose this is also true for 1o card suits.
What about
2 - 2
4 - 6 ?

Maarten Baltussen
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