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1C - 1D - ?

#21 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 23:31

One knows the rebid problem NOW.Had this been realised earlier then perhaps it would be wiser to open this hand as oneDiamond and then jump shift in clubs over partners major suit response if at all it does occur.That would be comparatively less twisting the system as the D holding is almost worth a five card value.
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#22 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 02:32

I think this hand depends more on what form of scoring. If it was pairs the 3D raise, while an underbid, will produce no horrible result. Imps we are going to game likely, its where. 2NT strikes me as my best chance, if I were to splinter in H we may miss an easy 3N. A spade splinter may lead to a failing 6D, as you say, gee sorry I thought I had 6C.
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#23 User is offline   indou 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 07:10

hello,

1 1 -> 4 cards in are not promised in french system cause 1C 1NT needs 8-10H...
In this case, i will rebid 3NT to show 4D in a big hand 5422. Partner could explore Slam.

3 rebid is forcing game with singleton
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#24 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 07:35

View Postmsjennifer, on 2017-December-19, 23:31, said:

One knows the rebid problem NOW.Had this been realised earlier then perhaps it would be wiser to open this hand as oneDiamond and then jump shift in clubs over partners major suit response if at all it does occur.That would be comparatively less twisting the system as the D holding is almost worth a five card value.


Much prefer to open 2N than 1,

The only advantage to 1 is that you can rebid 2N over 1, but 3 over 1.

You are in serious danger of playing in a 4-3 diamond fit if you don't show your actual suit lengths.
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#25 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 12:36

Hi,

the main question is, if 1D showes 4+.
This depends to a degree on the meaning of a 1NT response to a 1C opening
bid, some like to have add. values for the bid, say 8-10, the consequence
being that 1D may be only a 3 carder.

If the 1D response discovered a diamond fit, I go with 4D.
Most players would bid 1M, if holding a 4 card major, hence, we have at most
5 cards in either major, if he has a 4 card major, we will have a 9 card fit.

If 1D could be a 3 carder, you could (and maybe should) agree, that a 2H reverse
bid may be a fake, or that a 3D raise is forcing.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Just saw Indou's reply, where the issue of 1D showing only 3 cards, was already
raised.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#26 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 14:05

View Postmsjennifer, on 2017-December-19, 23:31, said:

One knows the rebid problem NOW.Had this been realised earlier then perhaps it would be wiser to open this hand as oneDiamond and then jump shift in clubs over partners major suit response if at all it does occur.That would be comparatively less twisting the system as the D holding is almost worth a five card value.

That partner respond's 1 and opps are silent is unexpected. Most of the time someone can bid a major (or it gets passed out, or someone bids 1NT). And then we can show our shape more accurately if we start with out longest suit.
You might speculate on the psychopathology of some posters but hating them seems excessive --- Nige1
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#27 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 14:27

View PostMrAce, on 2017-December-19, 17:33, said:

Rebid 2 NT (I would have opened 2 NT)

Take advantage of "aggressive overcalls" made by %99 of your opponents and never be scared of suit that they did not bid when they both can at 1 level Posted Image
No need to mention, 2 NT rebid does not promise stoppers in all suits.
I said this before and I am repeating, xx vs xxx is good enough for me to play 3 NT.

BS
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#28 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 14:32

View PostCyberyeti, on 2017-December-20, 07:35, said:

Much prefer to open 2N than 1,

The only advantage to 1 is that you can rebid 2N over 1, but 3 over 1.

You are in serious danger of playing in a 4-3 diamond fit if you don't show your actual suit lengths.

Opening 2NT on the example hand is an abomination. The hand is way too unbalanced. And as for
rebiddng2NT,well, the Yeti obviously didn't read my earlier post(!)
It's not a sin to play bridge,but it's a crime if you play it badly(!) ;)
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#29 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 16:19

Thanks all for the replies - seems a very tricky situation.

Walsh-style, 3NT looks like it's only going to work if partner has a double stopper in spades (without a lucky lead), while if I bid 2 and partner happened to raise, it's going to be hard to avoid a slam in a 4-2 fit (unless 1 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 6 is a thing?)

So my current position is probably forgetting about no trumps and bidding 4.

Up-the-line, I'd probably go with 2NT.

Phil, you may want to read https://www.larryco....nter/detail/879 , among others.

Edit - actually, I'm wrong, all partner needs is the Ace of clubs, 5 diamonds, and a spade stopper for 3NT.. but then 5 is likely still making.
Feel free to send me a friend challenge of any format as often as you like. I'll always accept :)
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#30 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 16:27

View PostPhilG007, on 2017-December-19, 17:39, said:

2NT rebid on the South hand would show a spade stop

What would you rebid with xxx AKx AQx KQxx or xxx AKx AKx KQxx?
(-: Zel :-)
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#31 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 16:34

View PostPhilG007, on 2017-December-20, 14:32, said:

Opening 2NT on the example hand is an abomination. The hand is way too unbalanced. And as for
rebiddng2NT,well, the Yeti obviously didn't read my earlier post(!)


I read it, but you were talking so much rubbish I ignored it.

2245/2254/2236/2263 frequently get opened 2N by good players.

Rebidding 2N over 1 is fine, I'll assume partner has a stop and also they're less likely to lead one.
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#32 User is offline   miamijd 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 17:34

View Postiandayre, on 2017-December-19, 19:36, said:

1H, 2NT and 3D are not forcing, and this hand is worth a force. 2H.


If you think this hand is worth an upgrade to 20 (I don't), then you should have opened 2NT. Having failed to do that, 2NT now is about right -- 18-19 balanced or semi-balanced. That's what you have.

I don't think this hand is worth an upgrade to 20, because it has too much stuff in a short suit (H) and not enough stuff in your long suit (clubs). If you open 1C and partner passes your 2NT ribe, you are not likely to make 9 tricks before the opponents get 4 spades and a club.

Cheers,
mike
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#33 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 17:42

View PostPhilG007, on 2017-December-20, 14:27, said:

BS


LOL

https://www.larryco....nter/detail/879



View PostPhilG007, on 2017-December-20, 14:32, said:

Opening 2NT on the example hand is an abomination. The hand is way too unbalanced. And as for
rebiddng2NT,well, the Yeti obviously didn't read my earlier post(!)




1- 5422 shape is defined as "semi-balanced" hand. It is not even considered as unbalanced hand, let alone being considered as "way too unbalanced"

2-Yeti read your previous post. We all do. After all it makes us laugh our *** off each and every single time. The link above tells that you are full of it. Not that we need L.C to tell us you are full of it but just for the sake of other posters who may take you seriously. Posted Image As Cyber said, I should probably ignore your BS too but...you know...you are the kind of person that everyone else feels good about themselves when they read you.Posted Image
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
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#34 User is offline   Caitlynne 

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Posted 2017-December-20, 17:44

While the hand has great potential with such excellent support for partner's suit (AKQx is pretty impressive) and good controls (i.e., all Aces and Kings elsewhere), the hand is not nearly as strong as it looks because it has two fast losers in spades and does not have tricks - largely because the side AK is doubleton.

I would not want to bypass 3NT (e.g., by raising to 4D) even though this is the value bid. So, I would take a strategic underbid of 3D since any major suit honors (other than the Ace of spades) that partner may have will not be contributing their full value(s). (E.g., partner might have Qxx,Qx,Txxxxx, Qx.) Partner will rarely pass 3D, but if partner does (as the example illustrates), we should not be able to make 3NT and the 11 trick diamond game should be far from a laydown.
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#35 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 09:54

View PostMrAce, on 2017-December-20, 17:42, said:

LOL

https://www.larryco....nter/detail/879







1- 5422 shape is defined as "semi-balanced" hand. It is not even considered as unbalanced hand, let alone being considered as "way too unbalanced"

2-Yeti read your previous post. We all do. After all it makes us laugh our *** off each and every single time. The link above tells that you are full of it. Not that we need L.C to tell us you are full of it but just for the sake of other posters who may take you seriously. Posted Image As Cyber said, I should probably ignore your BS too but...you know...you are the kind of person that everyone else feels good about themselves when they read you.Posted Image

BS
It's not a sin to play bridge,but it's a crime if you play it badly(!) ;)
"It is not enough to be a good player,you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
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#36 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 09:56

View PostCyberyeti, on 2017-December-20, 16:34, said:

I read it, but you were talking so much rubbish I ignored it.

2245/2254/2236/2263 frequently get opened 2N by good players.

Rebidding 2N over 1 is fine, I'll assume partner has a stop and also they're less likely to lead one.

Genius is hard to understand by the dull and ignorant(!)
It's not a sin to play bridge,but it's a crime if you play it badly(!) ;)
"It is not enough to be a good player,you must also play well"
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#37 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 10:03

View PostMrAce, on 2017-December-20, 17:42, said:

LOL

https://www.larryco....nter/detail/879







1- 5422 shape is defined as "semi-balanced" hand. It is not even considered as unbalanced hand, let alone being considered as "way too unbalanced"

2-Yeti read your previous post. We all do. After all it makes us laugh our *** off each and every single time. The link above tells that you are full of it. Not that we need L.C to tell us you are full of it but just for the sake of other posters who may take you seriously. Posted Image As Cyber said, I should probably ignore your BS too but...you know...you are the kind of person that everyone else feels good about themselves when they read you.Posted Image

I read the link provided. I like Larry Cohen...he is an excellent player...but he is not Messianic. He devised the "Law of Total Tricks"
but this was challenged by another grandmaster,Mike Lawrence in his excellent book "I Fought The Law of Total Tricks"
This proves that no theory is set in stone.
It's not a sin to play bridge,but it's a crime if you play it badly(!) ;)
"It is not enough to be a good player,you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
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#38 User is offline   masse24 

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Posted 2017-December-21, 19:34

View PostMrAce, on 2017-December-20, 17:42, said:

[F]or the sake of other posters who may take you seriously. Posted Image


LOL . . . how likely is that? :D
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” George Carlin
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#39 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-December-22, 04:45

View Postmasse24, on 2017-December-21, 19:34, said:

LOL . . . how likely is that? :D

I am not sure he even takes himself seriously. Notice the deafening silence on what to do with a strong 3334 hand with no spade stopper. :lol:
(-: Zel :-)
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#40 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2017-December-22, 06:29

Poll posted on BridgeWinners:
https://bridgewinner...m-2-fv944qba4q/
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