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1C - 1D - ?

#1 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2017-December-18, 21:48


I temporarily considered opening 2NT before deciding on 1, planning to reverse into diamonds - only to suddenly find that was no longer possible. What now - or would you have opened something else?

Playing 2/1 or SAYC, if the answer differs.
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#2 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2017-December-18, 21:56

3. 2NT is forcing in my system but 3 shows fit good.
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#3 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2017-December-18, 22:00

Playing SAYC you probably have to bid either 3 or 4.

Playing 2/1 might be different if it implies playing Walsh, i.e. responder will not have a 4-card major unless they have GF strength. In that case it is reasonably safe to bid 2, although it may be impossible to show the degree of the diamond fit later.

You could also fake a splinter in one of the majors.

Anyway, this is a hole in the system. I know one pair from the Lancaster club that play inverted minors in this situation, i.e. 2 would be forcing.
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#4 User is online   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 00:58

As the club suit is not good enough Both 3D and 4D are unsatisfactory as neither will convey the concentrated of strength in D and H suits and XX in S.My eccentric partner suggested a bid of ONE HEART and wait for partners response.As Helen suggested a fake splinter in one of the majors is a possibility but the bidding will become uncontrolled after that.A very complex situation indeed!
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#5 User is online   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 01:03

Pardon my typing errors of spelling and construction in my post as the new method of editing is a bit awry.
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#6 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 01:15

View Postsmerriman, on 2017-December-18, 21:48, said:


I temporarily considered opening 2NT before deciding on 1, planning to reverse into diamonds - only to suddenly find that was no longer possible. What now - or would you have opened something else?
Playing 2/1 or SAYC, if the answer differs.

I rank
  • 2 = "NAT". FG. Technical reverse. Might have fit. With 4, responder raises to 3 only.
  • 1 = "NAT". A danger is that this might be the final contract when partner has scraped up a response. e.g. x x x x x x x x x x x x A
  • 3 = NAT. NF. Underbid.
  • 2N = BAL 18-19, But when partner passes or raises to 3N?
  • 4 = NAT. Committal.
  • 3 = SPL. Zia might approve.
  • 3 = SPL. Ditto.

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#7 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 02:01

With my favourite partner, I will bid:
(1) 2NT (we play that as forcing to game 19-20)
or (2) 1 (she will never pass a change of suit at the one level.

Without these, it gets tricky. But I probably still bid 1.
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#8 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 02:49

2NT for me. If partner doesn't go looking for a slam, I doubt we have one. If partner does, I'll have time to show good diamond support.
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#9 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 07:47

View Postsfi, on 2017-December-19, 02:49, said:

2NT for me. If partner doesn't go looking for a slam, I doubt we have one. If partner does, I'll have time to show good diamond support.

Partners best suit is a poor suit. Unless they have a big hand expect to be in 2N/3N with no stopper when 5 makes.
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#10 User is offline   nekthen 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 08:09

3 seems right in terms of value. You need to agree whether partner's 3M is showing a stopper or asking.
I play transfers, so the problem does not arise. Whatever p bids, I can bid 2
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#11 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 08:16

View Postmsjennifer, on 2017-December-19, 00:58, said:

My eccentric partner suggested a bid of ONE HEART


I like it.

With no good options on my card (and my partner denies a 4-card major) this should do the trick to right side notrump should partner bid it and I don't have slam aspirations until further notice.

If partner can not bid notrump over this we belong in diamonds period losing 2 spades for sure and a 4 bid if appropriate next should draw attention to their club holding.
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#12 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 09:16

View Postsmerriman, on 2017-December-18, 21:48, said:


I temporarily considered opening 2NT before deciding on 1, planning to reverse into diamonds - only to suddenly find that was no longer possible. What now - or would you have opened something else?

Playing 2/1 or SAYC, if the answer differs.

I would rebid 3 diamonds. The low spade doubleton inhibits me from bidding no trumps. Partner has,so far
only indicated 6 hcps. Combined total suggests a game contract is feasible but not guaranteed.
It's a common misconception that 25-26 pts should produce a game. This is not so. I could produce many
hands with this total and no game contract is possible. 3 diamonds is quite sufficent as a rebid on the
example hand. It is a game invite,not a demand. Partner is free to pass if minimum.
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#13 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 09:57

2N is probably right (neither opp has overcalled spades, so they're probably not running 5 against you), but I like the idea of 3N, nominally showing a good club suit and a semibalanced hand. It'll stop us from missing game when P bid on Kxxx xxx Jxxxxx -, KQx xxx Txxxx xx etc, and if P goes hunting for a club slam I'll eventually pull him back to diamonds and hope he gets the joke.
The "4 is a transfer to 4" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#14 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 10:05

I was going to say about what Phil said but then I saw that he said it. I could have a bit less and still be bidding 3D, but I don't see that game is all that certain so 3D is enough. Partner will know I have four diamonds and a good hand. Since I open 1D with 4-4 in the minors, he can infer I have five clubs. Of course he won't know that I have AK in hearts and xx in spades, but if he has something extra we may well find the right spot. If he has Axx in spades along with some club values, not including the A, it could well be that 5D is the right spot even with his spade A. Playing in NT I would not have 9 running tricks after the spade lead.

Anyway, I bid 3D. Not perfect, but I think not bad. It's not the time to get cute with faked heart bids or faked splinters.
Ken
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#15 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 13:19

3 a bit of an underbid, but it keeps 3 NT which may be the best contract to play.

This is a hand that's more problematic for 2/1.

If you play Walsh (fairly normal in 2/1 minor suit opening auctions), you bypass to bid a 4-card major unless you have a hand with just or a hand with longer than your 4-card major that is reversible as responder or close to it. In that case, partner is sure to take another call if the latter, but may not if just an absolute minimum hand. So where you may lose is where partner decides to pass, but you can make game. Sorry, but bidding systems aren't perfect.

I wouldn't ever bid just 1 with this hand. If I were to bid , it would be 2 because partner would have to anticipate a possible "hasty" bid when that bid is made. With a 1 bid, I think it would be just about impossible to ever convince partner I don't have 4 in further bidding.
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#16 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 17:33

Rebid 2 NT (I would have opened 2 NT)

Take advantage of "aggressive overcalls" made by %99 of your opponents and never be scared of suit that they did not bid when they both can at 1 level Posted Image
No need to mention, 2 NT rebid does not promise stoppers in all suits.
I said this before and I am repeating, xx vs xxx is good enough for me to play 3 NT.
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#17 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 17:39

View PostJinksy, on 2017-December-19, 09:57, said:

2N is probably right (neither opp has overcalled spades, so they're probably not running 5 against you), but I like the idea of 3N, nominally showing a good club suit and a semibalanced hand. It'll stop us from missing game when P bid on Kxxx xxx Jxxxxx -, KQx xxx Txxxx xx etc, and if P goes hunting for a club slam I'll eventually pull him back to diamonds and hope he gets the joke.

2NT rebid on the South hand would show a spade stop which as can be seen is a total untruth. Just because the enemy haven't bid
spades doesn't mean they don't hold them and if they lead them, you're down before you even get started(!)
Partner MIGHT just hold a spade stopper for his bid but I've learned through bitter experience
not to put cards in partner's hand(!) :(
It's not a sin to play bridge,but it's a crime if you play it badly(!) ;)
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#18 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 17:46

View PostPhilG007, on 2017-December-19, 17:39, said:

2NT rebid on the South hand would show a spade stop which as can be seen is a total untruth.....more BS..


BS



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#19 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 19:36

1H, 2NT and 3D are not forcing, and this hand is worth a force. 2H.
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#20 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2017-December-19, 19:48

View Postiandayre, on 2017-December-19, 19:36, said:

1H, 2NT and 3D are not forcing, and this hand is worth a force. 2H.


I'm sympathetic to your desire to force, but how do you plan to continue the auction when partner raises your hearts?
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