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Strong or natural 1C + canapé or Moscito

#1 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2017-December-14, 03:36

Not sure if this a new idea, or if it has merit, but here it is:

1C = 15-17 NT / any 17+ unbalanced, but not game forcing / 6+C single-suited 11-16
1D = 4+D, 11-16, canapé style. Also bid with 5D and 4C.
1M = 4+M, 11-16, canapé style.
1NT = 12-14
2C = 18-19 NT or any GF.
2D = Multi. Weak major or 22-24 NT.
2M = Roman style: 5M and 4+C, 11-16.
2NT = 20-21

An alternative could be a similar approach, but using the Moscito structure:

1C = 15-17 NT / any 17+ unbalanced, but not game forcing / 6+C single-suited 11-16
1D = 4+H, 11-16. Longer minor possible.
1H = 4+S, 11-16. Longer minor possible.
1S = 4+D, 11-16. No major.
1NT = 12-14
2C = 18-19 NT or any GF.
2D = Multi. Weak major or 22-24 NT.
2M = Some kind of preempt...
2NT = 20-21

Compared to a normal strong club, in a weak NT context, the strong balanced hands are separated between different opening bids. This might seem bad (many think of 2NT as the slam killer), but I believe it can help in competitive auctions. The reason to remove game-forcing hands from 1C is mostly to help constructive auctions, since the 1C opening is somewhat limited. This makes it easier to play transfer responses to 1C, without having an artificial negative.

The idea of a canapé style, or a Moscito style, is to make the "weak" option in 1C less frequent, and also to make sure it is a "one time bid". A single-suiter in the 11-16 range can usually be described in one rebid, or during competition. The ideas could also be used in Precision or IMPrecision, where 2C shows 6+, but there you'd probably have to include 22-24 NT into 1C.
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#2 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2017-December-14, 03:52

Responses to 1C could be something like:

1C---
1D = 4+H, 0+ hcp.
1H = 4+S, 0+ hcp.
1S = No major, 0+ hcp. Balanced if 9+.
1NT = 9+ unbal with 5+D.
2C = 9+ unbal with 5+C.
2D+ = Not sure...

1C-1H;
1S = 11+ with clubs. Not three-card support if 17+.
1NT = 15-17 NT, not 4S.
2C = 3+ spades, unbal 17-21.
2D = Natural unbal, 17-21.
2H = Natural unbal, 17-21.
2S = 15-17, 4 spades.
2NT = Could be 22-24, if not playing multi. Otherwise strong two-suiters seems like a good option.

1C-1NT;
2C = 11-14(15) nat.
2D = 15-17 NT.
2M = Nat 17+.
2NT = Clubs GF.
3C+ = Support and GF.

1C-2C;
2DHS = Nat 17+.
2NT = 15-17.
3C = 6+C 11-13. Whoa!
3D+ = Support and GF.
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#3 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-December-14, 04:32

View PostKungsgeten, on 2017-December-14, 03:36, said:

The idea of a canapé style, or a Moscito style, is to make the "weak" option in 1C less frequent, and also to make sure it is a "one time bid".

Then you could also play

1/1 = as in your first structure
1M = 11-16, 5+ M
2M = 11-16, 4M5+C.
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#4 User is offline   glen 

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Posted 2017-December-14, 12:29

My wife and I currently use 2C as 18-19 bal or any 22+
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#5 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2017-December-14, 14:11

View Postglen, on 2017-December-14, 12:29, said:

My wife and I currently use 2C as 18-19 bal or any 22+


I think that's a sound approach if playing a system with a natural base. Do you include 22-24 NT in 2C? I've had a hard time constructing continuations over 2C if 22-24 NT is included, but I guess you could play some sort of Kokish relay and use 2C-2M/3m as sign-offs vs the 18-19 NT. From a bit of experimenting, here's the 2C structure I've tinkered with: http://snortingmarad...clubs18_19.html

I'd like to try playing a system based on this and your TIM/6MIA. I think it would be a pretty good base for constructive auctions:

1C = Weak NT or natural.
1D = Nat unbal.
1M = 5+M.
1NT = 15-17.
2C = 18-19 NT or any GF.
2D = 12-15(16) with 6M, or 22-24 NT.
2M = 8-11, 6M.
2NT = 20-21.
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#6 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-December-16, 06:55

View PostKungsgeten, on 2017-December-14, 03:36, said:

The reason to remove game-forcing hands from 1C is mostly to help constructive auctions, since the 1C opening is somewhat limited. This makes it easier to play transfer responses to 1C, without having an artificial negative.

I agree that removing all GF hands from 1 makes it easier to bid constructively after 1 and also to implement T-Walsh-like responses with 1M-1 starting at 0 hcp. But I suspect that the lack of either a negative or a "hearts or negative" 1 response might tend to make constructive bidding harder, not easier, especially on partscore hands where Responder has no major. For instance, if

1-1 = 0+, no major, BAL if 9+,

like you're suggesting, then a natural rebid structure just won't work IMO (the 17-21 range is too wide (IMO), and one cannot reliably play in Opener's major suit at the 2-level without risking a 5-1 fit), and I can't think of a really satisfactory artifical rebid structure that solves both the range and the shape issue, either.

But maybe something can be done based on

1-?:

1 = 0+, 4+ H, not 3433 if 9+
...1 = "17+", unBAL, relay
...(...)
......1 = 4+ S
......1N = "0-8"
......2 = "9+", H+D 2-suiter (incl. 4H4D(32))
......2 = "9+", H 1-suiter (incl. 5H(332))
......2+ = "9+", H+C 2-suiter (incl. 4H4C(32))
...1 = 15-17 BAL, 4+SS3-H OR ?
...1N = "11-13" (hence 3-S3H6+C) OR 15-17 BAL, 3-S3-H
...2 = "14-16", 2-H6+C
...2 = "14-16", 3H6+C OR ?
...2 = 15-17 BAL, 4-5 H
...2 = "17-19", 6+S(2-H?)
1 = 0+, 4+S3-H, not 4333 if 9+
...1 = "17+", unBAL, relay
......1N = "0-8"
......2 = "9+", S+D 2-suiter (incl. 4S4D(32))
......2 = "9+", S 1-suiter (incl. 5S(332))
......2+ = "9+", S+C 2-suiter (incl. 4S4C(32))
....1N = "11-13" (hence 3-S3-H6+C) OR 15-17 BAL, 2-3 S
....2 = "14-16", 2-S6+C
....2 = "17-19", (2-S?)6+H?
....2 = "14-16", 3S6+C OR ?
....2 = 15-17 BAL, 4-5 S
...(...)
1 = "0-8", no major, unBAL OR "9+", either D 1-suiter (incl. 5D(332)) OR M+D+C 3-suiter
...1N = 15+, relay (no longer needed as NF)
......2/ = "0-8", something
......2 = "9+", M+D+C 3-suiter
......2+ = "9+", D 1-suiter
...(...)
1N = 0-8 BAL (wrongsides NT, but...)
2 = "9+", D+C 2-suiter (incl. 4D4C(32))
2 = "9+", C 1-suiter
2 = 9+, (4333)
(...),

(where in the symmetric relay structure

* 4x4y23, x>y, is bid as 4x5y22 up to 3 (then over 3, 3 = 4x5y22; 3+ = 4x4y23, zoom)
* 4x4y32, x>y, is bid as 5x4y22 up to 3 (then over 3, 3 = 5x4y22; 3+ = 4x4y32, zoom))

?
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