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Converting our system to a green sticker system ABF system regulations

#1 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2017-December-11, 19:48

For various reasons I might have to play a regular club game that bans brown sticker systems and I think we're not supposed to play red systems, so I'm looking at convering what we play to a green sticker system. We currently play 2/1 GF with 5 card majors, a 14-16 no trump and a highly offensive array of brown sticker stuff.

The stuff in scope for replacement is

1C: Clubs or balanced - I need to take 3=3=5=2 hands out and put them somewhere else.
2C: Opening 2C as Strong, Weak Diamonds or Weak Spades
2S: Preempt in any suit
Overcalling 1NT: Three suited takeout as part of the overcall structure.

I was thinking the simpliest replacement is

1D: Picks up the 3=3=5=2 stuff and we just play what we normally play over 1C and 1D. Pretend you have 6 diamonds, or use judgement if you have a really poor diamond suit and open something else.
2C: Just make this strong or weak with diamonds. Requires virtually no change.
2S: Weak two in spade lives here. Only bummer is we lose the 5/5 minors opening.

I have no idea what to do about the 1NT overcall though. We play RJO overcalls, so we could play that over 1m it promises 4 cards in the other minor and 2H is 4/4 or better, but I'm slightly stumped about what to do over 1M.


My current openings are set out below if you need them:

1C: Clubs or balanced (The cause of the read sticker as we open 3=3=5=2 1C)
1D: Unbalanced Diamonds
1H: Hearts
1S: Spades
1NT: 14-16
2C: Strong, Weak Diamonds or Weak Spades (Brown Sticker)
2D: 4+ Diamonds and 4+ in a major, weak and premeptive
2H: Majors, Weak and Preemptive
2S: A pre-empt in any suit (Brown Sticker)
2NT: 20-21 Balanced
3C: 5/5 minors, weak and pre-emptive
3D: 6D+4M weak and preemptive
3H: Ropey 3H bid
3S: Ropey 3S bid
3NT: Single suited major bit

We also play the overcall structure, and overcalling 1NT as a takeout bid is brown sticker as it doesn't promise 4 in an unbid suit. (I'm
Converting this to Green sticker would be a matter
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#2 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-December-13, 07:08

View PostCthulhu D, on 2017-December-11, 19:48, said:

1D: Picks up the 3=3=5=2 stuff and we just play what we normally play over 1C and 1D. Pretend you have 6 diamonds, or use judgement if you have a really poor diamond suit and open something else.

I know you like transfer rebids over 1-1M, so how about

1 = NAT unBAL OR 11-13/17-19, 3352

1-1M; ?:

1(M=) = "spades"
1N = "clubs"
2 = "diamonds"
2(M=) = "heart reverse"
2M-1 = 3 M, either no extras* (so "10-12" if unBAL, 11-13 if 3352) or INV (so "16-18" if unBAL, 17-19** if 3352?)
2M = no extras, 4(+) M
2N = 17-19**, 3352?
other = extras, 4+ M?

?

* With "13-15", 3 M, unBAL, Opener will either rebid 1 or transfer to 2m before showing 3c support. E.g.

1-1; 1-1N; 2 = "13-15", 3 H
1-1; 2-2; 2 = "13-15", 3 S.

** Or maybe

1-1M; [2M-1]-2M; 2N = 18good-19, 3352
1-1M; 2N = 17-18bad, 3352

?
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#3 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2017-December-13, 12:50

I'm kind of surprised that 1 "clubs or balanced" prevents the system being green sticker. A lot of pairs here in Switzerland play that and they all seem to have "green" on their CC. Is there some documentation for this?

The various preempts create more of a problem of course; I guess you could play 2 multi (always weak) and 2 as "diamonds and another suit" with 3m natural? This seems to cover most of your preemptive possibilities (okay maybe not the 4-4 diamonds and a major hands).
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#4 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2017-December-13, 16:40

View Postawm, on 2017-December-13, 12:50, said:

I'm kind of surprised that 1 "clubs or balanced" prevents the system being green sticker. A lot of pairs here in Switzerland play that and they all seem to have "green" on their CC. Is there some documentation for this?

The various preempts create more of a problem of course; I guess you could play 2 multi (always weak) and 2 as "diamonds and another suit" with 3m natural? This seems to cover most of your preemptive possibilities (okay maybe not the 4-4 diamonds and a major hands).


The relevant part of the ABF system regulations is

Quote

2. CLASSIFICATION OF SYSTEMS
2.1 Green (Natural) Systems
a) All one-level opening bids are natural and non-forcing
b) An opening bid of one of a suit guarantees length (3+ cards) in the denomination named
(Exception: 4-4-3-2 and (4-3)-4-2 shaped hands may be opened 1♣)


I cannot open 3=3=5=2 1C as a green sticker under that arrangement.

The preempts are really not an issue as they don't have knock on system issues. 1NT overcall however, does, and really hurts.
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#5 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2017-December-13, 19:24

View Postnullve, on 2017-December-13, 07:08, said:

I know you like transfer rebids over 1-1M, so how about

1 = NAT unBAL OR 11-13/17-19, 3352

1-1M; ?:

1(M=) = "spades"
1N = "clubs"
2 = "diamonds"
2(M=) = "heart reverse"
2M-1 = 3 M, either no extras* (so "10-12" if unBAL, 11-13 if 3352) or INV (so "16-18" if unBAL, 17-19** if 3352?)
2M = no extras, 4(+) M
2N = 17-19**, 3352?
other = extras, 4+ M?

?

* With "13-15", 3 M, unBAL, Opener will either rebid 1 or transfer to 2m before showing 3c support. E.g.

1-1; 1-1N; 2 = "13-15", 3 H
1-1; 2-2; 2 = "13-15", 3 S.

** Or maybe

1-1M; [2M-1]-2M; 2N = 18good-19, 3352
1-1M; 2N = 17-18bad, 3352

?


This is a good idea - if I change from playing the two ways to raise as strong/weak to 4/3 cards I'm probably sorted. I just hate bypassing 1NT with the 3=3=5=2 hand. Ugh. Playing in a 4-3 probably isn't to bad most of the time.
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#6 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-December-14, 02:31

View PostCthulhu D, on 2017-December-11, 19:48, said:

I have no idea what to do about the 1NT overcall though. We play RJO overcalls, so we could play that over 1m it promises 4 cards in the other minor and 2H is 4/4 or better, but I'm slightly stumped about what to do over 1M.

Have 1NT show 4oM and make the same bid with (31)(54) as you would have done with 22(54) perhaps?
(-: Zel :-)
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#7 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-December-14, 06:15

View PostCthulhu D, on 2017-December-11, 19:48, said:

We also play the overcall structure, and overcalling 1NT as a takeout bid is brown sticker as it doesn't promise 4 in an unbid suit.

Half-baked idea:

(1)-?:

(...)
X = normal takeout except that the strong BAL option starts at 15 instead of 18/19 (=> non-standard responses incl. 1N = to play opposite 15-17 BAL)
1 = standard
1N = a) < opening strength, either 4S5+m or 4144 b) opening strength, either 5+S5+m or 4S6+m
2 = < opening strength, 4+C5+pointed
2 = < opening strength, 4+D5+black
2 = < opening strength, 6+ S
2 = opening strength, 3-S6+C (=> 2N = range ask)
2N = opening strength, 3-S6+D (=> 3 = range ask)
(...)


(1)-?:

(...)
X = normal takeout except that the strong BAL option starts at 15 instead of 18/19 (=> non-standard responses incl. 1N = to play opposite 15-17 BAL)
1N = a) < opening strength, either 4H5+m or 4144 b) opening strength, either 6+ H, 5H5+m or 4H6+m
2 = < opening strength, 4+C5+red
2 = < opening strength, 4+D5+rounded
2 = < opening strength, 6+ H
2 = opening strength, 3-H6+C (=> 2N = range ask),
2N = opening strength, 3-H6+ D (=> 3 = range ask)
(...)

Then e.g.

(1)-1N-?:

(...)
2 = P/C
2 = F1 relay
2 = to play opposite < opening strength
(...)

(1)-1N-2; ?:

P = < opening strength, either 5+ C or 1444
2 = < opening strength, 5+ D
2 = opening strength, 6+ H
2 = opening strength, 5+H5+m
2N = opening strength but no extras, 4H6+m (=> 3 = P/C)
3m = opening strength and extras, 4H6+m, NF
(...)

20 December 2017: But how do I bid hands with opening strength and 5D5C? Maybe it's better to play

(1)-?:

(...)
X = normal takeout except that the strong BAL option starts at 15 instead of 18/19 (=> non-standard responses incl. 1N = to play opposite 15-17 BAL)
1 = standard
1N = < opening strength, either 4S5+m or 4144 OR opening strength, either 5+S5+m or 4S6+m
2 = < opening strength, 4+C5+pointed OR opening strength, 3-S4-D6+C
2 = < opening strength, 4+D5+black OR opening strength, 3-S6+D4-C
2 = < opening strength, 6+ S
2 = opening strength, 5+pointed5+C (=> 2N = range ask)
2N = opening strength, 5+S5+D (=> 3 = range ask)
(...)


(1)-?:

(...)
X = normal takeout except that the strong BAL option starts at 15 instead of 18/19 (=> non-standard responses incl. 1N = to play opposite 15-17 BAL)
1N = < opening strength, either 4H5+m or 4144 OR opening strength, either 6+ H, 5H5+m or 4H6+m
2 = < opening strength, 4+C5+red OR opening strength, 3-H4-D6+C
2 = < opening strength, 4+D5+rounded OR opening strength, 3-H6+D4-C
2 = < opening strength, 6+ H
2 = opening strength, 5+red5+C (=> 2N = range ask),
2N = opening strength, 5+H5+D (=> 3 = range ask)
(...)

?

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#8 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2017-December-14, 18:31

View PostZelandakh, on 2017-December-14, 02:31, said:

Have 1NT show 4oM and make the same bid with (31)(54) as you would have done with 22(54) perhaps?


Depending on the texture of the hand you'd probably bid 1NT with both of them, showing both minors is 3C which is a lot more dangerous particularly given what we both overcall on. I think you're right though we just need to take the hit here.
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