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Suggest an Auction to the Grand

#1 User is offline   JonnyQuest 

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Posted 2017-November-09, 22:48

North deals and opens 1NT (15-17). Construct the auction.

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#2 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 01:01

This would be our partnership's way of reaching the grand, other commentators will no doubt have different routes depending on their systems. I assume opponents are silent.

1NT (15-17)
2 Stayman
2 4+
3 longer minor than major (GF)
3 good fit 3+ cards, first round control in . Cue bid by inference shows support for s
3 first round control. By inference confirms responder is slam-orientated, not interested in 3NT.
4 first round control
4 second round control of s
4NT Roman Key Card Blackwood 0314
5 Showing 3 of 5 'aces' including K
5NT Queen ask (3rd round control), excluding trump queen. Either the Q or Q will be a useful card
6 Q (partner bids 6 without any Q)
7 North will now think after all the bidding but not knowing quite exactly South's hand, "The grand slam is a fair bet, if trumps don't break too badly this should make."
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#3 User is offline   croquetfan 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 01:31

so much easier if north just opens 1
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#4 User is offline   JanisW 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 03:30

1NT
3
3
4 auto-Splinter
4 encouraging with A/K
4NT
5 2 with Q
5NT
6 lowest King

now S knows all 16HCP from N and can count to 12 tricks in NT, so we might get stuck in 6NT or

6 3rd control?
7 yes

@The_Badgers
How would you have bid differntly if the J were the J?
and I don't like the 1NT-opener taking control, opposite an unlimited partner, who should be captain of the auction (for example only S knows, that there are 6 -tricks).
So would've bid 4 showing second round control in Spades
What would've been King ask? 5?

regards
JW
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#5 User is offline   masse24 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 05:51

Duplicate.

This post has been edited by masse24: 2017-November-10, 05:54

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” George Carlin
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#6 User is offline   masse24 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 05:53

View PostThe_Badger, on 2017-November-10, 01:01, said:

This would be our partnership's way of reaching the grand, other commentators will no doubt have different routes depending on their systems. I assume opponents are silent.

1NT (15-17)
2 Stayman
2 4+
3 longer minor than major (GF)
3 good fit 3+ cards, first round control in . Cue bid by inference shows support for s
3 first round control. By inference confirms responder is slam-orientated, not interested in 3NT.
4 first round control
4 second round control of s
4NT Roman Key Card Blackwood 0314
5 Showing 3 of 5 'aces' including K
5NT Queen ask (3rd round control), excluding trump queen. Either the Q or Q will be a useful card
6 Q (partner bids 6 without any Q)
7 If trumps don't break too badly this should make.


If it's known that 1NT can be opened with a 5 card major, I might interpret 3 as showing a 5th , rather than agreeing .
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” George Carlin
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#7 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 06:56

View Postcroquetfan, on 2017-November-10, 01:31, said:

so much easier if north just opens 1

I disagree. Will be hard to show 16 points balanced if you don't open 1N.
Also, with only A if you open 1 partner will assume some of your points in will be wasted opposite a singleton and will unlikely to be looking for 7.

To Badger. you don't need trump to break. Ruff a spade and you have 13 tricks barring some unusual ruff by defenders.
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 06:59

Adapting our auction to strong NT:

1N-2
2-2(general GF enquiry)
3(5 hearts)-4(4/5+ slammish)
4(KC)-4(0/3)
5(Q, I have one of KQ, bid slam with the other)- 5N(Q, no Km, encouraging noise, very likely a 6th or J or both, might be Q)
7
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#9 User is offline   4THSuit 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 07:21

1NT...............................................3(slam try 6+suit with 2 of 3 top honours
3= cue bid .A...........................4 - Roman key card Gerber
5=2 of 5 KC +trump Q...............5=cue bid A
6 = cue bid K
(having already shown A...........6 =cue bid K or singleton
6=cue bid K..............................7

note 1: after 5 reply to RKCGerber 5would be sign off.
note 2: after 6 cue bid 6 would be sign off settling for small slam
note 3: if responder cue bids A after openers cue bid of A opener then initiates Roman key card Gerber.
note 4: after opener shows K responder can sign off in 6NT.
note 5: If opener has a 3rd 12 tricks is maximum unless a squeeze develops if one defender has both long and .(Getting into the late Terence Reece' territory now :) )
note 6: As there is a singleton in responder's hand there is likely to be another probably in trumps. If so drawing the 3rd round of trumps must be delayed until a is ruffed in dummy.which is the 13th trick. 731and 2
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#10 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 08:53

View Postmasse24, on 2017-November-10, 05:53, said:

If it's known that 1NT can be opened with a 5 card major, I might interpret 3 as showing a 5th , rather than agreeing .


Please read my post in full! I don't care one iota what your interpretation is. It states quite clearly our partnership
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#11 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 09:03

View Poststeve2005, on 2017-November-10, 06:56, said:

To Badger. you don't need trump to break. Ruff a spade and you have 13 tricks barring some unusual ruff by defenders.


Quite agree, Steve. When I wrote "7 If trumps don't break too badly this should make" I was trying to provide North's thoughts after all the bidding whether 7 was a sound contract. Thanks, I have amended the original post.
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#12 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 09:04

View PostThe_Badger, on 2017-November-10, 08:53, said:

Please read my post in full! I don't one iota what your interpretation is. It states quite clearly our partnership


So how do you bid a 4351 opposite 2533 where you want to play in hearts ?
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#13 User is offline   Caitlynne 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 09:24

Standard methods using 4 suit transfers makes this child's play:

1N - 2N
3C/D - 3H
4C - 4S
5C - 6C
7D

3C/D is whatever the superaccept is by agreement.

4C, 4S, and 5C are obvious cue bids.

6C shows the Queen and excellent trump - some interest in a grand and opener accepts holding the Ace of hearts and the King of spades to go with the Qxx of trumps already indicated by the superaccept.
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#14 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 09:28

So the people who transfer to diamonds are just giving up on the spade suit?

#15 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 09:38

View PostCyberyeti, on 2017-November-10, 09:04, said:

So how do you bid a 4351 opposite 2533 where you want to play in hearts ?


That is a good question I cannot answer, Cyberyeti. I suppose that sometimes you have to accept that with two eight card fits you're bound to play in the wrong trump suit occasionally. Our Stayman followed by three of a minor usually shows 4-6 at least, slam-orientated as opposed to just game, though I concede it could show 4-5.

Back to the drawing board...
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#16 User is offline   masse24 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 09:42

View PostJonnyQuest, on 2017-November-09, 22:48, said:

North deals and opens 1NT (15-17). Construct the auction.



1NT - 2
2 - 31
32 - 43
44 - 4NT5
5 - 5NT
6 - 7

1. Showing 4 and 5+
2. I have five
3. Six+ , slammy
4. Okay, are fine--here is a control
5. RKC -- etc.
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#17 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 11:47

View Postbarmar, on 2017-November-10, 09:28, said:

So the people who transfer to diamonds are just giving up on the spade suit?

Depends on your methods. We transfer to diamonds and then bid spades with 6-4, but we use Stayman and then bid diamonds with 5-4.
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#18 User is offline   hamish32 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 13:27

We play the 3 bids as transfers showing a 6 card suit and a slam try. It is still possible to find a !S fit after this opening.

1NT - 3!C
3!D - 3!S
4!C - 4!D
4!H - 4!S
4NT - 5!S
5NT - 7!D

3!C slam try 6!D
3!D 3+ card support
3!S 6!D4!S
4!C/!h!/!S fist or second round control
4!D waiting
4NT turbo 0 2 4 key cards
5!S do you have the Q we have all key cards
5NT yes but no second suit
7!D dosent matter we must have enough
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#19 User is offline   miamijd 

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Posted 2017-November-11, 00:15

View PostThe_Badger, on 2017-November-10, 01:01, said:

This would be our partnership's way of reaching the grand, other commentators will no doubt have different routes depending on their systems. I assume opponents are silent.

1NT (15-17)
2 Stayman
2 4+
3 longer minor than major (GF)
3 good fit 3+ cards, first round control in . Cue bid by inference shows support for s
3 first round control. By inference confirms responder is slam-orientated, not interested in 3NT.
4 first round control
4 second round control of s
4NT Roman Key Card Blackwood 0314
5 Showing 3 of 5 'aces' including K
5NT Queen ask (3rd round control), excluding trump queen. Either the Q or Q will be a useful card
6 Q (partner bids 6 without any Q)
7 North will now think after all the bidding but not knowing quite exactly South's hand, "The grand slam is a fair bet, if trumps don't break too badly this should make."


In "standard" methods, the auction would be very uch like this one, except that 5H, not 5NT, would be the Queen ask. Then in standard, 5S (Queen of D + King of S); 5NT (anything else you want to tell me); 6C (I have the King of clubs, too).

At this point, South knows 16 of North's HCP: Ks/Ah/Qd/AKc. So North can't have a lot more (maybe a Jack). South can count 12 tricks, so 6NT is fine. The question is whether partner has a doubleton spade (third-round ruff); the AKJx of clubs (J is trick 13); or a five-card H suit (fifth heart is odds-on to set up). None are likely, but the doubleton spade is the best bet. Since 6NT is safe, probably South's best bid at this point is 6H, showing second round H control. Now North can bid 6S, third round spade control, and now South knows N has Kx in spades and can confidently bid 7D.

Not easy.

Cheers,
Mike
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#20 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2017-November-11, 19:57

View Postmasse24, on 2017-November-10, 09:42, said:

1NT - 2
2 - 31
32 - 43
44 - 4NT5
5 - 5NT
6 - 7

1. Showing 4 and 5+
2. I have five
3. Six+ , slammy
4. Okay, are fine--here is a control
5. RKC -- etc.

Also from Chicago's burbs and would hope to have the same sequence.
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