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#1 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2017-November-04, 12:48

All the hands I am submitting are from ACBL 12-Board Robot Tournaments. In all cases the human is declarer, sitting south in diagram. The human is never dummy in this type of tournament, although positions could have been rotated if GIB was first to name final contract.
They are not necessarily criticism of GIB, or the human player, but there could be errors on one or both sides. None of them had easy answers for me, or I probably wouldn’t be submitting them.
The first question will always be “how would you bid this hand?” It can then be answered with the logic behind your answer and any other comments or criticisms you want to ad.

work in progress…more hands to come
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#2 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2017-November-04, 13:28

View Postzhasbeen, on 2017-November-04, 12:48, said:

All the hands I am submitting are from ACBL 12-Board Robot Tournaments. In all cases the human is declarer, sitting south in diagram. The human is never dummy in this type of tournament, although positions could have been rotated if GIB was first to name final contract.
They are not necessarily criticism of GIB, or the human player, but there could be errors on one or both sides. None of them had easy answers for me, or I probably wouldn’t be submitting them.
The first question will always be “how would you bid this hand?” It can then be answered with the logic behind your answer and any other comments or criticisms you want to ad.


This is a hand type that comes up reasonably often and always gives me fits. The 2 main components are 6-4 pattern with too many points for a jump rebid. For this hand the jump shift rebid in clubs was easy, but can cause all kinds of problems after north’s 2nd response. It will be hard to ever recover the heart suit, and what what happens if he raises my clubs? Should I pass 3NT or “correct” to 4H now, figuring he will know I have 6? But, what if he has stiff heart or void? What alternatives do I have to club jump shift rebid if that happens?
I need a set way to handle this type of hand when it comes up rather than go into tank for a half hour. It has many cousins too, such as 6-3-3-1 pattern and 19+ hcp.


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#3 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2017-November-04, 14:26

View Postzhasbeen, on 2017-November-04, 12:48, said:

All the hands I am submitting are from ACBL 12-Board Robot Tournaments. In all cases the human is declarer, sitting south in diagram. The human is never dummy in this type of tournament, although positions could have been rotated if GIB was first to name final contract.
They are not necessarily criticism of GIB, or the human player, but there could be errors on one or both sides. None of them had easy answers for me, or I probably wouldn’t be submitting them.
The first question will always be “how would you bid this hand?” It can then be answered with the logic behind your answer and any other comments or criticisms you want to ad.

work in progress…more hands to come

7446-5

How do you bid this hand? I finally passed after laboring for a while, playing bot for longer spades but too weak to bid over 1H. Several players opened 2NT with my hand
I did manage to make 3S with this 4-2 fit, but got 6% with more players than not in NT. However, my 3H was probably overdoing it, since I already advertised strong hand. Bot could have made neg double over 1H, but I can't be overly critical with 2 of 6 hcp being jacks, and one of them in opps suit. As it turns out that jack was big for no-trumpers.

I wonder if opening the hand in question 2NT will work out best in the long run. I will sometimes open NT with this shape, but want stoppers in both doubletons to do so.



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#4 User is offline   spotlight7 

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Posted 2017-November-04, 16:45

View Postzhasbeen, on 2017-November-04, 13:28, said:

This is a hand type that comes up reasonably often and always gives me fits. The 2 main components are 6-4 pattern with too many points for a jump rebid. For this hand the jump shift rebid in clubs was easy, but can cause all kinds of problems after north’s 2nd response. It will be hard to ever recover the heart suit, and what what happens if he raises my clubs? Should I pass 3NT or “correct” to 4H now, figuring he will know I have 6? But, what if he has stiff heart or void? What alternatives do I have to club jump shift rebid if that happens?
I need a set way to handle this type of hand when it comes up rather than go into tank for a half hour. It has many cousins too, such as 6-3-3-1 pattern and 19+ hcp.




1H-1S-3D-3D*4th suit forcing-3H-4H
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#5 User is offline   spotlight7 

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Posted 2017-November-04, 16:50

View Postzhasbeen, on 2017-November-04, 14:26, said:

7446-5

How do you bid this hand? I finally passed after laboring for a while, playing bot for longer spades but too weak to bid over 1H. Several players opened 2NT with my hand
I did manage to make 3S with this 4-2 fit, but got 6% with more players than not in NT. However, my 3H was probably overdoing it, since I already advertised strong hand. Bot could have made neg double over 1H, but I can't be overly critical with 2 of 6 hcp being jacks, and one of them in opps suit. As it turns out that jack was big for no-trumpers.

I wonder if opening the hand in question 2NT will work out best in the long run. I will sometimes open NT with this shape, but want stoppers in both doubletons to do so.





1C-(1H)-p-p-2D-2N*(suggests weakness, bids at the three level would show vales)-3C all pass
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#6 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2017-November-04, 17:24

View Postspotlight7, on 2017-November-04, 16:50, said:

1C-(1H)-p-p-2D-2N*(suggests weakness, bids at the three level would show vales)-3C all pass


I dunno about that one. Two diamonds is a reverse, and I would think a jump to 3 would show more distribution. In hindsight, however, I don't like my 3H cue bid. North already had a chance for NT and didn't take it. Four clubs is another bid I could have made, and 5C happens to make. Bot might accepted with an ace and 3 trump, plus the J in my diamond suit.
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#7 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2017-November-04, 23:01

You should post hands in separate threads. There is a request at the top of this forum to keep hands in separate threads, maybe easier for the programmers to keep track of bugs. Since the main focus of this forum is how to improve GIB's bidding. If it's a more general how to bid these hands, not thinking it's a robot issue, can use one of the other forums.

On the first hand, I don't particularly like GIB's bid of 3nt holding KJ of hearts and only Qxx in diamonds. IMO it's a clear 3h bid, then you have an easy 4h. 4th suit F artificial as spotlight suggests normally doesn't apply because we already in a GF after the jump shift. 3D can be played as an artificial mark time bid but that's kind of a special agreement.

Though I have to note that GIB really lucked out in that 3nt happens to be impregnable on this layout while 4h can be defeated on trump lead + another trump. Doesn't really justify its bidding though, 3h is clear.


On the second hand, I think spotlight is suggesting that North should bid 2nt as a weak pref to 3c rather than a direct 3c which would show more in values in a std reverse sequence (if North had actually shown some strength by bidding earlier in the hand). It conceivably should still apply when North hasn't responded or doubled as here.
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#8 User is offline   virgosrock 

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Posted 2017-November-05, 10:52

View Postzhasbeen, on 2017-November-04, 12:48, said:

All the hands I am submitting are from ACBL 12-Board Robot Tournaments. In all cases the human is declarer, sitting south in diagram. The human is never dummy in this type of tournament, although positions could have been rotated if GIB was first to name final contract.
They are not necessarily criticism of GIB, or the human player, but there could be errors on one or both sides. None of them had easy answers for me, or I probably wouldn’t be submitting them.
The first question will always be “how would you bid this hand?” It can then be answered with the logic behind your answer and any other comments or criticisms you want to ad.

work in progress…more hands to come


Could you post each separately please. afaiac GIBBO is quite good in play and defense with rare hiccups. Bidding is atrocious.

thanks
vrock
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#9 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2017-November-05, 11:48

View PostStephen Tu, on 2017-November-04, 23:01, said:

You should post hands in separate threads. There is a request at the top of this forum to keep hands in separate threads, maybe easier for the programmers to keep track of bugs. Since the main focus of this forum is how to improve GIB's bidding. If it's a more general how to bid these hands, not thinking it's a robot issue, can use one of the other forums.

On the first hand, I don't particularly like GIB's bid of 3nt holding KJ of hearts and only Qxx in diamonds. IMO it's a clear 3h bid, then you have an easy 4h. 4th suit F artificial as spotlight suggests normally doesn't apply because we already in a GF after the jump shift. 3D can be played as an artificial mark time bid but that's kind of a special agreement.

Though I have to note that GIB really lucked out in that 3nt happens to be impregnable on this layout while 4h can be defeated on trump lead + another trump. Doesn't really justify its bidding though, 3h is clear.


On the second hand, I think spotlight is suggesting that North should bid 2nt as a weak pref to 3c rather than a direct 3c which would show more in values in a std reverse sequence (if North had actually shown some strength by bidding earlier in the hand). It conceivably should still apply when North hasn't responded or doubled as here.


“You should post hands in separate threads”

Will do--I wasn’t sure if what I had in mind was feasible, or if it is appropriate to talk about hands that aren’t necessarily focusing on GIB problems. There is probably another BBO forum for that.

One question for you—is there anything you can do except pass when LHO opens 15-17 NT and you also hold one as next bidder? I’m talking about a balanced NT with no 5-card suit. I’ve been passing with those, but usually with some sense of frustration.
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#10 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2017-November-05, 12:10

View Postvirgosrock, on 2017-November-05, 10:52, said:

Could you post each separately please. afaiac GIBBO is quite good in play and defense with rare hiccups. Bidding is atrocious.

thanks
vrock


I have developed more tolerance for GIB the past week or so. More experience and reading through some stuff, such as fstrick604 thread on this forum has helped. I already knew that creating a software program that can play a decent game of bridge is extremely difficult. This one from smerriman post really caught my attention: "The catch is that the best bidding system for a robot is completely incomprehensible for a human, and as stated near the end of that PDF, trying to make it human-understandable usually gives a much worse result" I downloaded the PDF and read-skimmed through it.
I don't know if you've watched basketball much, but most fans have seen times when the coach yells "oh no, oh no, NO!" as one of his players launches an impossible 30-footer. Then, as the ball swishes through the net he screams "yes, yes, YES!" as jumps up off the bench.

Well, GIB has given me many of those moments. Sometime there is a method to his madness, and you gotta take the bitter with the sweet. Now, if I can just make it through today without breaking any furniture...haven't played a robot tournament yet.
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