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They bid 3m over your 1NT What are your agreements?

#1 User is offline   Trick13 

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Posted 2017-November-01, 17:12

Came up two hands in a row where the points were fairly equally shared.
In each case 1NT is a possibly off-shape 10-12.
Would you have different agreements for MP vs IMPS?

1NT (3) ?

K95
74
AQ754
Q86

-----

1NT (3) ?

QJ98
AJ743
94
32
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#2 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-November-02, 00:06

I play after 1NT - (3m) interference, Dbl as Takeout, 3/3M over 3 and 3M over 3 as GF, and 3NT to play.

Given that the NT opener is limited to 10-12 I'd pass both hands, even though there might be a dead lucky chance of 3NT making with the first, and a thin semblance of a major suit fit at the 3 level on the second, at IMPs/MPs, NV/Vul.

If partner hadn't opened there's little chance we'd would have come into the bidding over a 3m opener, and there's even more reason not to do now, given that partner has limited his hand, without knowing his precise distribution.
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#3 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-November-02, 09:12

View PostTrick13, on 2017-November-01, 17:12, said:

Came up two hands in a row where the points were fairly equally shared.
In each case 1NT is a possibly off-shape 10-12.
Would you have different agreements for MP vs IMPS?

1NT (3) ?

K95
74
AQ754
Q86

-----

1NT (3) ?

QJ98
AJ743
94
32



I would pass in both examples. Any action you take could rebound with disastrous results.
You have to accept that you will,on occasion, be gazumped. When that happens,all you can
do is grit your teeth and pass.
It's not a sin to play bridge,but it's a crime if you play it badly(!) ;)
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#4 User is offline   aawk 

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Posted 2017-November-02, 09:14

Opponents jump to 3 level and looking at your own hand makes game for both sides is not likely.

Playing 1nt as 10-12 is more a pre-empt than a constructive bid and the purpose is to compete for a part score and is better suited playing for MP then IMP in my opinion.

Playing for IMP the bidding should focus more on looking for game then reaching or competing the (best) part score and your agreements how to proceed after opponents intervention should reflect that.
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#5 User is offline   Trick13 

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Posted 2017-November-02, 15:44

Thanks. Passing was the right action on both those hands. Bidding cost us about 10 IMPs collectively.
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#6 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2017-November-03, 06:04

In general, over 1NT-(3), you can play:
x = takeout, looking for a 4-card M mostly.
3 = hearts
3 = spades
3 = "diamonds" (maybe always diamonds and a slam try, maybe allowing a stop ask)

and over 1NT-(3), you can play:
x = takeout, looking for a 4-card M mostly.
3 = 5+ spades, inv+
3 = 5+ hearts, choice of games

With a 10-12 NT, I'm tempted to just recommend everything as natural and to play (although in practice, this also means that partner can raise on a good hand). It's a bit goofy, but this is how you can compete for the partscores the most. There's a school of thought that also recommends penalty doubles after a mini NT, treating it the same way as an overcall of a preempt, but that strikes me as shackling ourselves for no good reason. Again, after every weak NT, we want to compete for a partscore as much as we can. My partner said almost nothing about their distribution, our opponents had the benefit of one round of natural bidding, now I'd like to get my partner's help in finding a fit of our own. I would not, however, do anything crazy in your examples. I'd be happy to bid 3 to play after 1NT-(3C)-? if you moved a low spade to diamonds.
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#7 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-November-03, 11:40

We never will play 10/12 NT. That aside ,game prospects are absolutely none on both the responders hands.We MAY score 3 H/S on the second hand but may go down also. As nothing has been mentioned about vulnerability ,it will usually be wise to Pass on both these,Some May bid 3D on the first and 3H on the second.Good Luck to them as opener may have only xx in the bid suit.And really speaking how much value has the CQ in the the first hand.? 3 and 4 level interventions over a weak NT as above pose many blind problems unless it is a fixed partnership and have the gadgets to handle such situations.
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#8 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2017-November-03, 16:35

Strategy can change significantly depending on form of scoring AND vulnerability of both sides.

I personally play x as penalty over weak NT at the 3 lvl since stopping on a dime using x as takeout is tough. These hands present differing problems depending on the vulnerability AND form of scoring.

Hand 1 If WE are vul at IMPS I prefer trying 3n. The presence of the 5 card minor and p having a greatly improved hand due to the bidding (behind the opps likely power outside clubs) increases the chance
of a vul game bonus enough for me to make a risky call. If we need a squeeze we at least know which opp to try and make it work against.

Hand 1 IF OPPS are vul at MP I would X (for penalty) I would consider x too risky at any form of scoring at IMPS.

Hand 2 pass no matter the vulnerability or form of scoring. While I have no reason to think I can set 3c I have even less reason to assume 3M is safe and that we can get p to stop at 3M with a fit and a max.
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#9 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-November-03, 16:58

View Postaawk, on 2017-November-02, 09:14, said:

Opponents jump to 3 level and looking at your own hand makes game for both sides is not likely.

Playing 1nt as 10-12 is more a pre-empt than a constructive bid and the purpose is to compete for a part score and is better suited playing for MP then IMP in my opinion.

Playing for IMP the bidding should focus more on looking for game then reaching or competing the (best) part score and your agreements how to proceed after opponents intervention should reflect that.

I've never been a fan of the so-called "Mini No Trump" (10-12)opening bid. IMHO it just serves as a red rag to the opposition.
Those pairs who do use it must,inevitably,have escape routes for when it its doubled. In ACBL tournaments it's banned.
It's not a sin to play bridge,but it's a crime if you play it badly(!) ;)
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#10 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2017-November-03, 19:30

View PostPhilG007, on 2017-November-03, 16:58, said:

In ACBL tournaments it's banned.


No, it's not. The 10-12 NT opening is allowed in all convention charts.
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