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I got it wrong I guess

Poll: I got it wrong (13 member(s) have cast votes)

What is this double?

  1. Penalty (5 votes [38.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 38.46%

  2. Cooperative Penalty (2 votes [15.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  3. Spade Game Try (3 votes [23.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

  4. other (3 votes [23.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

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#1 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-October-30, 14:11

Match points. You have not discussed this specific auction.



Unfortunately I do not positively remember whether N/S were vulnerable or not. Would this change your answer?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#2 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2017-October-30, 14:19

Penalty.

The only other option is a good spade raise, you may call it game try.
The problem with that: 2S may be an OBAR bid, vulnerability matters,
if you have agreed to play OBAR, the number of hands that want to make
a game try is low, very low.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#3 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-October-30, 14:27

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2017-October-30, 14:19, said:

Penalty.

The only other option is a good spade raise, you may call it game try.
The problem with that: 2S may be an OBAR bid, vulnerability matters,
if you have agreed to play OBAR, the number of hands that want to make
a game try is low, very low.

With kind regards
Marlowe


Have no idea what OBAR means, but partner does not wander into a live auction without values.

OBAR = OverBidding At Random?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#4 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2017-October-30, 16:20

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2017-October-30, 14:19, said:

The only other option is a good spade raise, you may call it game try.
The problem with that: 2S may be an OBAR bid, vulnerability matters,
if you have agreed to play OBAR, the number of hands that want to make
a game try is low, very low.


AKA Maximal Doubles.

If 2 could be an OBAR bid, do you really want to make a penalty double?
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#5 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2017-October-30, 17:57

you can play it as a good raise.

you can play it as penalty.

you can play it as takeout - can easily have like a 2245 12 count here.

absent agreement i would think penalties.
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#6 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-October-30, 19:00

I have discovered that OBAR means pre-balancing. We would not do this as an unpassed hand; we do not want to have to use fancy methods when we have a real hand.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#7 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2017-October-30, 19:11

View PostVampyr, on 2017-October-30, 19:00, said:

I have discovered that OBAR means pre-balancing. We would not do this as an unpassed hand; we do not want to have to use fancy methods when we have a real hand.


You aren't so far off in your initial acronym effort - at least in practical terms. From memory, the full acronym is OBARBIDS, which stands for "Opponents Bid and Raise, Balance in Direct Seat". The concept was introduced by noted conservative bidder Marty Bergen in his book on the contested auction.

The basic idea is sound - if they have a fit you should want to get into the auction - but it can be taken too far.
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#8 User is online   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 06:10

There's competitiveness, and there's competitiveness. In my view, if a player wants to bid 2 vulnerable under the opening bidder after two vulnerable opponents have bid and his partner has passed, he should have a half-decent hand. If he hasn't got a half-decent hand, he lets his partner balance if 2 is not raised, knowing full well that his partner didn't have an ideal hand to overcall or make a takeout double on the first round of bidding.

As wank says you can take the Dbl. any way you like with agreement. Without agreement I would take it strictly as penalties, partner being over the opening bidder, but I would look at how many hearts I am holding in my own hand as the 2 bidder before making a definitive decision.
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#9 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 08:42

View PostThe_Badger, on 2017-October-31, 06:10, said:

There's competitiveness, and there's competitiveness. In my view, if a player wants to bid 2 vulnerable under the opening bidder after two vulnerable opponents have bid and his partner has passed, he should have a half-decent hand. If he hasn't got a half-decent hand, he lets his partner balance if 2 is not raised, knowing full well that his partner didn't have an ideal hand to overcall or make a takeout double on the first round of bidding.

As wank says you can take the Dbl. any way you like with agreement. Without agreement I would take it strictly as penalties, partner being over the opening bidder, but I would look at how many hearts I am holding in my own hand as the 2 bidder before making a definitive decision.


Well, you have two.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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