BBO Discussion Forums: what is 2nt? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

what is 2nt?

#1 User is offline   LBengtsson 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: 2017-August-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-October-30, 11:14



2c drury
2d min?
2s i know
2nt i not know?

next bid???
0

#2 User is offline   The_Badger 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 807
  • Joined: 2013-January-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England
  • Interests:Bridge, Chess, Film, Literature, Herbal Medicine, Nutrition

Posted 2017-October-30, 12:06

2NT is more than a minimum with a 5-3-3-2 shaped hand, in my opinion. When opener bids 2 with Drury then bids again over your 'forced' 2 reply, he has extras, perhaps a good 14 count. With the singleton my next bid is 4.
0

#3 User is offline   wank 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,747
  • Joined: 2008-July-13

Posted 2017-October-30, 17:54

noone plays 2D as showing a minimum after drury any more. you want to be able to bid 2D with hands unsure about game so as to let responder retry.

2s should be the worst hands.
1

#4 User is offline   The_Badger 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 807
  • Joined: 2013-January-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England
  • Interests:Bridge, Chess, Film, Literature, Herbal Medicine, Nutrition

Posted 2017-October-31, 06:32

2 says Drury on the post though yes, I agree, Reverse Drury is far more popular these days. If he is bidding 2 with a suit and an opening hand, possibly with extra values, I'm bidding 3 next as a splinter - I hope! I have already confirmed support by default by using Reverse Drury, and hopefully by inference this confirms support too.

A thought occurred to me while posting this, why use 2 as Drury/Reverse Drury when 1NT after partner has opened in 3rd could be used in its place?
0

#5 User is offline   PhilG007 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 632
  • Joined: 2013-February-24
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dundee Scotland United Kingdom
  • Interests:Occasional chess player. Dominoes

Posted 2017-October-31, 08:40

View PostLBengtsson, on 2017-October-30, 11:14, said:



2c drury
2d min?
2s i know
2nt i not know?

next bid???

It's not a sin to play bridge,but it's a crime if you play it badly(!) ;)
"It is not enough to be a good player,you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
0

#6 User is offline   PhilG007 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 632
  • Joined: 2013-February-24
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dundee Scotland United Kingdom
  • Interests:Occasional chess player. Dominoes

Posted 2017-October-31, 08:45

View PostLBengtsson, on 2017-October-30, 11:14, said:



2c drury
2d min?
2s i know
2nt i not know?

next bid???

I would take a gamble on 4 Spades. There is really no alternative that I can
see. 3NT is out of the question with the singleton heart. I would think that
4 Spades would be the par contract.
It's not a sin to play bridge,but it's a crime if you play it badly(!) ;)
"It is not enough to be a good player,you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
0

#7 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,930
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2017-October-31, 11:03

As with so many conventions, some discussion beyond "Drury?" - "OK" would save a lot of grief. Surely opener is pl playing Reverse Drury, meaning that the 2D showed (at least) a full opener. If he is playing original Drury, where 2D showed a light third hand opening, then bidding anything over 2S would make no sense. So 2D was artificial and showed an opening hand (or more).

Now after P - 1S - 2C - 2D- 2S any further bid shows extras (obviously). As I like to play it, the 2S is not entirely forced. The conversation so far has been:
Pass: I lack the values to open.
1S: I have five spades and something of an opening
2C: I have a spade fit and some values
2S: I had enough for 2C but nothing all that special
2NT: One more try before we give up

Well, the hand could be worse. Probably the stiff heart is useful, perhaps the long diamonds are useful. So 4S. Probably partner is semi-balanced as has already been said, but whatever he has he still thinks game might be possible so I bid 4S. I imagine some might play that 2NT is a short suit game try in some undesignated side suit, in which case 3C would ask for the short suit. I am assuming no such conversation took place.

Anyway, I join others in guessing 4S.
Ken
0

#8 User is offline   miamijd 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 273
  • Joined: 2015-November-14

Posted 2017-October-31, 13:37

It seems that opener plays 2D as "opening bid or better" and not "minimum opener," as in standard Reverse Drury.

When the OP said "min," I don't think he meant a light opener. I think he meant a minimum 12-13 opener: a full opener without the values to force game opposite a Drury bid. At least I hope so; very few folks play 2D as a light opener any more.

I would not have bid 2S with your hand over 2D. If partner has a minimum opening hand, this hand is worth a game try if not a game force. Being aggressive on bidding game, I would simply have leaped to 4S, but at least you need to bid 3S to show extra values.

If opener is playing standard reverse Drury (where 2D shows specifically the minimum opening bid and never more than that), then opener's 2NT is just odd. If he has a minimum opener and responder has a hand that wants to sign off in 2S opposite that, he wouldn't bid again.

So evidently opener plays 2D as minimum or better. Not the standard treatment, but very playable. Then 2NT probably shows 14 balanced or so. I would now try 4S.

Cheers,
Mike
0

#9 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,930
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2017-November-01, 08:06

Maybe another word on the 2D, assuming that the light opening response would have been to rebid the major. I have the Mike Lawrence disk on conventions, including Reverse Frury. In his view, any response to 2C that goes beyond 2 of opener's major is game forcing. It follows that 2D shows a full opener but one with insufficient strength to force to game simply after hearing 2C.

I think this all leaves a little room ofr bidding on after Pass-1M-2C-2D-2M.. The 2M is discouraging but maybe not entirely a sign-off. Going on after 2M could be something like "I heard you, I am not expecting much, but I still think that unless you have a rock bottom minimum we might belong in game".

Maybe I am stretching, but this seems reasonable to me without stipulating any non-standard version of Reverse Drury. This sort of fine tuning requires more discussion than usually takes place in online games.
Ken
0

#10 User is offline   msjennifer 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 524
  • Joined: 2013-August-03
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Variable private
  • Interests:Cricket,Photography,Paediatrics and Community Medicine.

Posted 2017-November-01, 08:47

It appears that responder was playing drury and the opener was playing reverse drury. A rare unlikely possibility is he opened on a four card Spade suit .The way I was taught and read drury, when playing reverse drury a rebid of the original major shows a minimum hand and all other bids are natural guaranteeing a good normal opening hand 13 plus HCP and not more than 7 losers as played in spades.Whereas the normal drury bid the Openers 2D rebid shows a sub opening hand and is ambiguous as played by a large number of expert players. Well,they have the further addition to drury and that is 1S-2C shows a hand which has a three card support and 1S-2D shows a hand with 4 card support.
0

#11 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,930
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2017-November-01, 15:10

View Postmsjennifer, on 2017-November-01, 08:47, said:

It appears that responder was playing drury and the opener was playing reverse drury. A rare unlikely possibility is he opened on a four card Spade suit .The way I was taught and read drury, when playing reverse drury a rebid of the original major shows a minimum hand and all other bids are natural guaranteeing a good normal opening hand 13 plus HCP and not more than 7 losers as played in spades.Whereas the normal drury bid the Openers 2D rebid shows a sub opening hand and is ambiguous as played by a large number of expert players. Well,they have the further addition to drury and that is 1S-2C shows a hand which has a three card support and 1S-2D shows a hand with 4 card support.


If by " all other bids are natural" you mean to include the 2D bid over 2C I think that is not usual. I offer a couple of references.

Better idding with Bergen. vol1 page 48: on Reverse Drury "The bid does not guarantee a diamonds suit" He offers AT743 / J3 / 94 / AK75 as an example of a hand that would rebid 2D after 1S - 2C.

Mike Lawrence's Conventions disk: Without explicitly saying so his examples treat the 2D as artificial.For example he has Pass-1S-2C-2D on AKJ73 / 3 / Q76 / QT75. Despite the 12 highs he regards the hand as worth a 2D call. Says nothing about diamonds.

At the Bridge Bum, http://www.bridgebum...verse_drury.php
we have P - 1S - 2C - 2D on AJ952 / A98 / 92 / KQ6 so 14 highs and a weak doubleton diamond.


It is simply a fact that different people have different ideas about what it means to play convention X, where X can be almost anything. I do think that, in Reverse Drury, 2D is widely played as artificial, showing a hand with a fit and where game is possible opposite a passed hand.


A comment on ""A rare unlikely possibility is he opened on a four card Spade suit". This occurred to me also. If that is what opener is doing I regard it as a very bad choice. I have opened four card spade suites in third position but if partner then bids Drury and puts me in 2S I play 2S. I have a strong four card suit else I would not be opening 1S, and 2S might well be our best spot. Even if it isn't, it is very possible 2NT is an even worse spot. Further, partner will be confused about what I am doing. So if opener had a four card suit he have should passed 2S in my not so humble opinion. But I do think that might be what happened, I just don't like it.
Ken
1

#12 User is offline   apollo1201 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 260
  • Joined: 2014-June-01

Posted 2017-November-01, 16:42

View Postkenberg, on 2017-November-01, 15:10, said:

A comment on ""A rare unlikely possibility is he opened on a four card Spade suit". This occurred to me also. If that is what opener is doing I regard it as a very bad choice. I have opened four card spade suites in third position but if partner then bids Drury and puts me in 2S I play 2S. I have a strong four card suit else I would not be opening 1S, and 2S might well be our best spot. Even if it isn't, it is very possible 2NT is an even worse spot. Further, partner will be confused about what I am doing. So if opener had a four card suit he have should passed 2S in my not so humble opinion.


I also thought about that but when I open a 4-cd suit in 3rd, I have 12 HCPs at most, so I obviously pass 2M.
0

#13 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,930
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2017-November-01, 19:57

View Postapollo1201, on 2017-November-01, 16:42, said:

I also thought about that but when I open a 4-cd suit in 3rd, I have 12 HCPs at most, so I obviously pass 2M.


Agreed!
Ken
0

#14 User is offline   akwoo 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 680
  • Joined: 2010-November-21

Posted 2017-November-02, 11:47

It should be approximately the same meaning as whatever 1S-2S-2N means (except a couple points lighter since responder is a couple points heavier).

If it's an unspecified short suit try, I bid 3.

If it's an unspecified long suit try, I bid 3.

If it's an ask, I reply to the ask (and if the agreement is that 3 shows any minimum, I don't bid that).

If it's a pickup partnership and this hasn't been discussed, then I bid 3 at MPs and 4 at IMPs.

The only real danger in game is if your heart shortness isn't worth its full value and partner's club shortness is also wasted. This isn't so likely, but if you have the tools to figure this out, use them.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users