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Comparable call

#1 User is offline   Villi2013 

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Posted 2017-October-27, 20:30

Hi,

East opens 1 when South was the dealer, not condoned.
South then opens 1 passed around to east.
The East bid of 1C is better minor,guaranteeing minimum of 3 Clubs.
What could be considered comparable call - could a double be comparable in this situation. I think 2C could be comparable i don't think it could be a Michael's Cue Bid
so possibly 2C here could be a genuine Club Suit - problem is 1C could show as little as 3 clubs.I look forward to read your comments.

Same scenario this time East bids 2 - 19 - 21, 8 playing tricks, not condoned. South opens 1 passed around to east - what would be comparable in this situation - double seems as possibility or maybe even 2NT - though 2NT could be for the lowest unbid
suits if that is in their system.

Many thanks
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#2 User is offline   BudH 

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Posted 2017-October-28, 09:32

Assuming Easts 1C bid showed 3-plus clubs, Id allow a balancing 1NT (about 11-14 HCP) or 2NT (about 18-20 HCP) since it is extremely likely the hand will contain 3-plus clubs. West would not be required to pass. Note that West has very little (if any) extra information from the withdrawn 1C bid.

If 2C was natural in the balance, that would also be comparable.

A takeout double is NOT comparable. All (most) hands that would make takeout doubles are not part of the set of hands that would open 1C.

In your second question (artificial 2C out of rotation), I dont think any comparable call is available.
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#3 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-October-28, 11:16

View PostVilli2013, on 2017-October-27, 20:30, said:

East opens 1 when South was the dealer, not condoned.
South then opens 1 passed around to east.
The East bid of 1C is better minor,guaranteeing minimum of 3 Clubs.
What could be considered comparable call - could a double be comparable in this situation. I think 2C could be comparable i don't think it could be a Michael's Cue Bid
so possibly 2C here could be a genuine Club Suit - problem is 1C could show as little as 3 clubs.I look forward to read your comments.

Why couldn't it be Michaels (no apostrophe, it's named after Mike Michaels)?

#4 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2017-October-28, 11:39

View Postbarmar, on 2017-October-28, 11:16, said:

Why couldn't it be Michaels (no apostrophe, it's named after Mike Michaels)?

Couldn't it be Michaels'?
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#5 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2017-October-28, 19:22

No.
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#6 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-October-29, 13:02

View Postgordontd, on 2017-October-28, 11:39, said:

Couldn't it be Michaels'?

We don't say Jacoby's, Blackwood's, or Stayman's.

#7 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2017-October-29, 20:52

View PostVilli2013, on 2017-October-27, 20:30, said:

East opens 1 when South was the dealer, not condoned.
South then opens 1 passed around to east.
The East bid of 1C is better minor,guaranteeing minimum of 3 Clubs.
What could be considered comparable call?

If all balanced hands without a five-card major open 1C, then 1NT would be comparable, showing a more precise balanced hand than a 1C opening. There are plenty of hands that would open 1C that would not protect with 1NT, but almost no hands that would protect with 1NT that would not open 1C. Although 1C does not show a club stop, 1NT still shows a subset of hands that would open 1C. I would not allow double as there are plenty of hands that would double that would not open 1C, and there is extra information that you don't have a singleton or doubleton club.
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#8 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2017-October-30, 02:03

View PostVilli2013, on 2017-October-27, 20:30, said:

Hi,

East opens 1 when South was the dealer, not condoned.
South then opens 1 passed around to east.
The East bid of 1C is better minor,guaranteeing minimum of 3 Clubs.
What could be considered comparable call - could a double be comparable in this situation. I think 2C could be comparable i don't think it could be a Michael's Cue Bid
so possibly 2C here could be a genuine Club Suit - problem is 1C could show as little as 3 clubs.I look forward to read your comments.

Same scenario this time East bids 2 - 19 - 21, 8 playing tricks, not condoned. South opens 1 passed around to east - what would be comparable in this situation - double seems as possibility or maybe even 2NT - though 2NT could be for the lowest unbid
suits if that is in their system.

Many thanks

One might argue that either 1NT or 2NT in the balancing position is comparable to an opening 1C bid, but it's worth noting that the "or similar" part of the definition of comparaable call only relates to "has the same or similar meaning as that attributable", which these two calls do not.

The "subset" clause in 23A2 does not have a "similar" modifier, so we need to consider whether a balancing 1NT or 2NT really is a subset of an opening 1C, perhaps asking questions of the pair first.

As to an opening strong and artificial 2C, I do not think there is a replacement call comparable to this.
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#9 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-October-30, 13:48

View Postbarmar, on 2017-October-28, 11:16, said:

Why couldn't it be Michaels (no apostrophe, it's named after Mike Michaels)?


It was in the balancing position.
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#10 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-October-31, 08:54

View PostVampyr, on 2017-October-30, 13:48, said:

It was in the balancing position.

I think most people play Michaels in direct and balancing position. Why not, since it describes your hand well, and the natural meaning is still unlikely.

It probably wouldn't be a weak hand, since you can just pass the hand out (which is why balancing 2NT is not Unusual, and balancing jump overcalls are intermediate or strong).

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