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Unauthorised Information ?

#1 User is offline   Chris3875 

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Posted 2017-October-25, 01:14

The bidding didn't actually go quite like that ... after the 2NT bid by East, West bid 2H which was alerted by East and eventually (after the director was called) accepted by North. East then bid 2NT again and West bid 3H, and East bid 4H. At this point there was a lot of body language and sighing from West who bid 4NT. Their card shows 4NT as blackwood. East then said "Oh, you want SPADES" bid 5S - all passed. I felt that unauthorised information had led to the 5S bid - further East commented that he didn't know they played transfers after a 2NT opening bid (they've only been playing together for about 4 years !!) They made 11 tricks. I wasn't at all happy with the way this auction was conducted. What is your adjusted score?
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#2 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2017-October-25, 01:26

How many key cards did each of them have and what sort of Blackwood do they play? I suspect one would really have to have been there and be able to question each of the players to rule properly.
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#3 User is offline   Chris3875 

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Posted 2017-October-25, 01:36

Well, my feelings were that the 5S bid was made after unauthorised information from partner. She woke him up that she was transferring. I don't think the 4NT bid WAS blackwood, even though it is on their card (straight blackwood, not keycard). The fact that he said he didn't know they transferred after a 2NT opening was pretty telling, I thought.
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#4 User is offline   Chris3875 

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Posted 2017-October-25, 01:39

Darn ... I did the hand editor thingo but I see it didn't show up ...

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#5 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2017-October-25, 02:05

So if he had thought it was Blackwood and responded accordingly, he would have bid 5S anyway. It may be that all that should happen is to give the pair a PP for their illegal communications.
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#6 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-October-25, 04:49

West 4N is ludicrious. Just bid 4
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#7 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-October-25, 08:34

There's so much here to question. If East didn't think they played transfers, why did he alert 2? And if he thought it was natural, why did he rebid 2NT instead of raising to 3. And how does body language + 4NT suggest that he wants spades?

#8 User is offline   Chris3875 

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Posted 2017-October-25, 17:46

They play transfers after 1NT, but he said he didn't think they played after 2NT - so when he saw the 2H he "forgot" he had opened TWO NT and thought it was a transfer. Yes, agreed, West probably should have just bid 4S, but she didn't, she bid 4NT. I thought in a normal auction where the players did not play transfers - 2NT - 3H - 4H - 4NT would certainly be someone looking for slam, even though I knew in this case it wasn't. It just seemed to me that there was a lot of unauthorised information happening with the obvious distress from West over her partner's non acceptance of the transfer. By the way, both transfers after 2NT AND Blackwood are clearly on their system card despite East saying he didn't think they played transfers after 2NT. As to why body language + 4NT = Spades, I think he just finally woke up that that was what his partner wanted from the start. What about adjusting the score back to 4H going off 1 ?
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#9 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2017-October-29, 21:15

If East bid 5 because that's the right response to 4NT BW, then absent UI there's no problem. But it looks like she bid 5 because "Oh! You want spades!" That is blatant use of UI and illegal. But I don't think you can adjust to 4. I think you adjust to 4NT down one. And give a PP to EW for violation of Law 73C and Law 16B1{a} (whatever you do about the table result).

Not sure I agree with Gordon about letting the score stand, but I do agree that we need more information to rule correctly. With that information, it's possible the score should stand.
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#10 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2017-October-30, 01:38

View Postblackshoe, on 2017-October-29, 21:15, said:

Not sure I agree with Gordon about letting the score stand, but I do agree that we need more information to rule correctly. With that information, it's possible the score should stand.

Isn't that what I said? :)
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#11 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2017-October-30, 08:24

View Postgordontd, on 2017-October-30, 01:38, said:

Isn't that what I said? :)

yes. :)
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I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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