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Preempted...

#1 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2017-October-15, 07:57

In an IMP game, red vs green, you deal yourself a nice collection that you open at the lowest possible bid (1C), but nasty oppenents are quick enough ensuring that your next bid, if any, will be pretty much higer:

1C - 3S - X* - 4S
?

* should have 4+H and a good 11 after this start

Ax
Q9xx
Ax
AKTxx

What now? The PM (and laughters) soon, promised!
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#2 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2017-October-15, 09:52

double. if partner has a doubleton spade bidding on is rather dangerous. if partner pulls the double you can assume he has a singleton and drive slam.
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#3 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-October-15, 10:03

View Postwank, on 2017-October-15, 09:52, said:

double. if partner has a doubleton spade bidding on is rather dangerous. if partner pulls the double you can assume he has a singleton and bid slam.


Partner needs as little as xx, AKJx, xxx, QJx to make a slam if the trumps split, the doubleton spade is irrelevant if partner has the right fast cards (KQ may also do the trick particularly in a 2452).

I need to know whether partner occasionally bends the shape requirements for the double if better than minimum, and also whether pass is forcing (it is for us).

Also how many clubs have I shown ?
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#4 User is offline   GrahamJson 

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Posted 2017-October-15, 10:09

5NT = Pick a slam. True, I'd prefer not to have a doubleton spade, but partner must have a few values, AKK at least, so six should have play.

An interesting point is what is the difference between 5NT and 5S? I'd say that 5S would show a void. Incidentally I'm not bidding 6H myself as I don't have full confidence that partner's double shows four.
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#5 User is online   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-October-15, 16:15

Can someone tell me what 4NT means here? It looks like a bid that should be utilised in this sequence at adverse vulnerability with some specific meaning.
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#6 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2017-October-15, 21:12

pass force. more. X less. 5h/5n/6h mayb
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#7 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2017-October-15, 21:12

pass force. more. X less. 5h/5n/6h mayb
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#8 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-October-16, 01:37

5NT .{Given the well explained bidding)The word SHOULD used
for the explanation makes me suspect that the PM may be quite funny.!
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#9 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2017-October-16, 01:44

Double for me.
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#10 User is offline   GrahamJson 

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Posted 2017-October-16, 02:46

View PostThe_Badger, on 2017-October-15, 16:15, said:

Can someone tell me what 4NT means here? It looks like a bid that should be utilised in this sequence at adverse vulnerability with some specific meaning.

Two places to play. As such it would be a good bid, intending to either raise partner’s response to six or follow up with a 5S cue bid or 5NT GSF. However partners on BBO tend to tell you how many aces they have whenever 4NT is bid, hence I would prefer 5NT unless playing with a known good player.
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#11 User is online   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-October-16, 07:59

View Postwank, on 2017-October-15, 09:52, said:

double. if partner has a doubleton spade bidding on is rather dangerous. if partner pulls the double you can assume he has a singleton and drive slam.

You are assuming this is an established partnership. What action would you take in a casual parnership(?) You cant use fancy gadgets in a strange
partnership. Its a recipe for disaster.
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#12 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2017-October-16, 16:25

View Postmsjennifer, on 2017-October-16, 01:37, said:

5NT .{Given the well explained bidding)The word SHOULD used
for the explanation makes me suspect that the PM may be quite funny.!


The funny part now. I bid 6H but after reading all your comments, the FP is probably the best way (as after what partner should have, it should be forcing as it is our hand). At least most of you are driving to slam.

I get the obvious S lead. Partner (sweet her!) did turn out with 4❤️ but not the ones I had imagined, and a bit less HCPs. But she didn't want to be stolen by the 3S bid she said:

K
J87x
Kxxx
Qxxx

Urgh...but an ok slam at IMPs if she had a more likely hand containing A or K of H instead of the unexpected SK.

Anyway, for some reasons only known to himself, RHO with KTxx trumps "falsecarded" with the K when I called a small trump from dummy. And crashed it with LHO's bare ace.
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#13 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2017-October-16, 19:51

Dbl is wow. Falsecard is a novice play.

I like the forcing pass, but anyone that doubles on this crud wont pick up the message Im sending.

After pass with a non-idiot Im not quite sure what Im bidding after 4D. 4H I suppose but I dont think ive shown all my hand.
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#14 User is offline   MinorKid 

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Posted 2017-October-16, 21:14

Me 17HCP +1 DP
Partner: 11
5 card Good suit +1 Point

Heart Fit: +3 TP
That's 33 enough for slam investigation.

Assume partner has no spade honor Except for
x AJxx QJxxx QJx
x AQxx KJxxx Jxx
x AKxx QJxxx Jxx

other hand types should have three of four key cards AK K Q
But 11 is not enough for all four of them.

So I just bid 6

Case Closed
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#15 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2017-October-17, 02:37

View PostPhil, on 2017-October-16, 19:51, said:

Dbl is wow.


you're right. i hadn't spotted we're in a forcing pass situation. if it's 2s-x-4s we're not in a fp and then i think double is right.
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#16 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2017-October-17, 02:53

View Postwank, on 2017-October-17, 02:37, said:

you're right. i hadn't spotted we're in a forcing pass situation. if it's 2s-x-4s we're not in a fp and then i think double is right.


I think Phil was saying "wow" about responder's negX.

What makes 1C-2S-X-4S so different from 1C-3S-X-4S such that pass on the first would not be forcing and on the second it is? Just the fact that responder should be a bit stronger for the second auction? (Genuine question, for my own education.) I must admit, playing pass as forcing here is new to me - we're not in a GF, we don't necessarily have a fit, and opps may well be making their contract.

ahydra
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#17 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-October-17, 18:55

View Postahydra, on 2017-October-17, 02:53, said:

I think Phil was saying "wow" about responder's negX.

What makes 1C-2S-X-4S so different from 1C-3S-X-4S such that pass on the first would not be forcing and on the second it is? Just the fact that responder should be a bit stronger for the second auction? (Genuine question, for my own education.) I must admit, playing pass as forcing here is new to me - we're not in a GF, we don't necessarily have a fit, and opps may well be making their contract.

ahydra


Well, I guess the double forced us to game or at least to 4m.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#18 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2017-October-20, 06:44

View Postahydra, on 2017-October-17, 02:53, said:

I think Phil was saying "wow" about responder's negX.

What makes 1C-2S-X-4S so different from 1C-3S-X-4S such that pass on the first would not be forcing and on the second it is? Just the fact that responder should be a bit stronger for the second auction? (Genuine question, for my own education.) I must admit, playing pass as forcing here is new to me - we're not in a GF, we don't necessarily have a fit, and opps may well be making their contract.

ahydra


If the 4 bidder were a passed hand and weve shown at least inv strength, it sets up a forcing pass. So Id say it applies if they overcall 2 or 3 but not 1.
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