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Declarer Opening LOOT

#21 User is offline   pran 

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Posted 2017-October-11, 16:55

View Postaxman, on 2017-October-11, 09:56, said:

(Specifying declarer to be south), given the supplied facts:

South's exposed card, being the first card played (definition of OL) to the first trick, is an OLOOT.
The OL having been made, dummy is spread (L41C). L54 is irrelevant as N did not lead face down.
W may accept the OLOOT by playing to the trick, and it is treated as in turn (L53A). or,
W may decline to accept, and the lead reverts to W** (L53A) and South's card may be withdrawn (47B).

** if south declines to withdraw his card it remains a lead, defining the suit of the trick.

An "opening lead out of turn" by presumed declarer or dummy is explicitly defined as a card exposed during the auction. See Law 54E.
(It does not end the auction period.)
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#22 User is offline   axman 

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Posted 2017-October-12, 11:53

View Postpran, on 2017-October-11, 16:55, said:

An "opening lead out of turn" by presumed declarer or dummy is explicitly defined as a card exposed during the auction. See Law 54E.
(It does not end the auction period.)


In order for L54 to be relevant, N needed to have (also) led face down. North did not do so, therefore L54 is not reached.

As to the end of the auction period, that would be irrelevant since the lead starts the play period irrevocably- whether or not the auction period had ended.
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#23 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2017-October-12, 14:52

View Postaxman, on 2017-October-12, 11:53, said:

In order for L54 to be relevant, N needed to have (also) led face down. North did not do so, therefore L54 is not reached.

Quote

Law 54E: If a player of the declaring side attempts to make an opening lead Law 24 applies.

Nothing in there about it needing to be face down.

View Postaxman, on 2017-October-12, 11:53, said:

As to the end of the auction period, that would be irrelevant since the lead starts the play period irrevocably- whether or not the auction period had ended.

Nope.
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#24 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-October-13, 08:53

The relationship between 54E and 24 is confusing. Law 24 is about exposed cards, so it seems like 54E's redirection to 24 should only apply if a player from the declaring side actually faces their attempted opening lead, not if they just attempt to make it.

#25 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2017-October-13, 13:04

If declarer placed a card face down on the table during the clarification period, and an opponent called me to the table, pointed at the card and said "lead out of turn", I ask who's supposed to be declarer. On being told it's the leader, I'd tell him to pick up the card, not exposing it, and put it back in his hand. Then I would say to declarer's LHO "it's your lead." As for the relationship between 54E and 24, it seems clear to me that, since law 24 deals with exposed cards, law 54E does too. It's not confusing at all, if you think about it.
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As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
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