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how to treat hand as this

#1 User is offline   cencio 

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Posted 2017-October-03, 13:13

Tell me how to find, if it is possible, the contract of 4 Hearts. or a better contract different from 2d doubled.
With a correct bid

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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-October-03, 13:20

4 is a terrible contract that you really don't want to be in (requires 2 finesses, one of which figures to work), +200 from 2X is a really good score, 100 is not too bad.

** OK, this was edited after I posted this to reverse the vulnerabilities.
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#3 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2017-October-03, 13:35

double is takeout. why didn't east take it out? 2 is where you want to be.
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#4 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2017-October-03, 13:36

I would be counting my lucky stars that my opponent was reckless/dumb enough to bid 2.

That said, with the E hand I would probably open 1, treating it as 18.
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#5 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-October-03, 18:11

if you bid 4on hands like this your likely result will be -2.
Just because something makes with 3 finesses and 2 suit breaks does not mean you should bid game
If this was you stop it. If this was your partner tell them to stop "resulting"
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#6 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-October-03, 20:22

First of all, understand that just because a contract makes doesn't mean it should be bid. So the objective of good bidding is to put you into contracts that have a reasonable chance of making. Sometimes because everything is right, you'll find a hand where a contract will make, but good bidding won't get you there. The flip side of that is that with good bidding sometimes you'll be in a contract that has a good chance of making but goes down because of bad breaks or cards laying wrong. Nonetheless, it's still good bidding to get to the contract.

4 makes because both red Ks lie right, so the finesses work. Without any other information, it's a 25% probability that the cards lie that way. The actual probability of both finesses working is a little bit higher because North did balance with a 2 bid. But even if both finesses work, you'll still go down unless you can limit the hand to no losers except AK and A. Dummy's doubleton is key to doing that allowing East losing to be ruffed. So the odds are that game is probably still a lot less than a 50% chance of making. Bidding contracts on any regular basis with less than a 50% chance of making is not winning Bridge unless you're intending to sacrifice.

West correctly passed East's 1 NT opening bid which shows less than a decent 8 that would be needed to invite game. When West subsequently doubles the 2 balance, West shows somewhere about 6 - a bad 8 in value and is for takeout. West's message is "I think we've got the majority of points on the hand." It's in no way clear from East's very flat 17 that a game should be bid.

Note that had North held K10xx Kx K10xxxx x, 2 doubled would make.

So after West's reopening double, East should bid 2 and hope for the best.
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#7 User is offline   dokoko 

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Posted 2017-October-04, 00:08

If West's double is for takeout (as it should be), East cannot pass (sure he can if asking for trouble).
If West's double is for penalty, he should bid 2h instead (or pass if timid.
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#8 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2017-October-04, 03:09

View Postrmnka447, on 2017-October-03, 20:22, said:

4 makes because both red Ks lie right, so the finesses work.


You don't even have any ready entries to take two finesses. Even with sight of all four hands it takes some effort to make 4 on say A lead!

2 is ample.
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#9 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2017-October-04, 04:22

x t/o pass east is wrong ajx right ajxxx
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#10 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-October-04, 07:47

Meckwellian game contracts with 23HCPs combined on balanced hands are best avoided by us lesser players :)
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#11 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2017-October-04, 13:26

View PostTramticket, on 2017-October-04, 03:09, said:

You don't even have any ready entries to take two finesses. Even with sight of all four hands it takes some effort to make 4 on say A lead!


2 rounds of high spades and a spade don't cause much problems. Declarer plays a low club to the queen and South has no answer. Declarer will get to dummy with Q, take a diamond finesse, ace and ruff a diamond, and take a heart finesse, draw trump, and give up a club if the ace hasn't been played.

A low club lead makes play more interesting (but not so interesting that 4 can't make). Declarer has to go up Q, take the diamond finesse, ace and ruff a diamond, take the heart finesse, draw trump, lead a spade and finesse the 9 if North plays low.

So now you need 3 finesses and A with the opening leader.

Clearly the only reason to want to be in 4 is that it makes on the actual hand.
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