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Control Precision 3 Those other opening bids

#1 User is offline   Bermy 

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Posted 2017-September-13, 20:59

I will start a new feed to release more notes I have on Control Precision.

Much of it will be familiar to any Precision player, and perhaps to new Precision Learners as well.

1NT is weak 13-15 but is rather like opening 1NT opening in any system, using Staymen, Jacoby Transfers etc. Control works perfectly here.

5 Card majors are similar to those used elsewhere.In Precision they are limited to a 15Hcp ceiling , so that limits the hand, 2 over 1 bids are not Game Force and 1NT is not forcing on Blind Partner. We use a modified version of Bergen raises. It is modified to accommodate our limited opening.

I have produced tables, not for learning, but rather for reference.

Once again I am open for questions, stick to the subject please, and not open to new suggestions. Nice comments will be appreciated and will motivate me. Please stick to BBO ethics on manners.

We avoid splinters in Control Precision as this becomes a reverse of control.
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#2 User is offline   Bermy 

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Posted 2017-September-13, 21:07

One Heart Openings.
Control Precision Opening Bids
Major suit Openings show 11-13 Hcp when min and 13-15 Hcp when max. When holding 13 Hcp the hand should be judged as max or min by its shape. It always will have that 5 Card suite. When holding two suiters, bid the major first, and always before . When holding a 5x and 4x, reversing is only permitted when Blind Partner has a max hand. Blind Partner is obliged to return to 2, when holding a min hand, even if that is a 5 card suit.

Responses to 1: (Tables are layed for reference only, no need to be learned)

Control Partner bids 1 with 4 or more No Pass Available, safe to bid.

Bid 1NT 5332 Min
2/ 5x with 4 or more / Min
2 5x or 6x Min
2 5x and 4x Min
2NT 5332 *? Max
3/ 5x with 4 or more / Max
3 6or more Max
3 5x and 4x Max


Control Partner bids 1NT (Unsafe to bid) No support for

Pass Min
2/ 5x with 4 or more / Max
2 6x Min
2 5x and 4x Max
2NT 5332 Max
3/ 5x 2 suit Max
3 Blind Mad Bid. Max

Control Partner bids 2 One round artificial force. Safe to bid No Pass Available. May or may not hold s

2 5x with 4 or more Min
2 5x or 6x Min
2 5x and 4x Min
2NT 5332 Max
3 5x and 4 or more s. Min
3 5x and 4 or more Max
3 6 or more Max
3 5x and 4x Max

Control Bidder bids 2One round artificial force. Safe to Bid No Pass Available. May or may not hold

2 5x or 6x Min
2 Stopped in Min
2NT 5332 Max
3 5x and 4 or more s. Max
3 5x and 4 or more []/ Max
3 6 or more Max
3 5x and 4x Max

Control Bidder bids 2 Single Raise with 3x Unsafe to bid

Pass Min
2 5x and 4x Max
2NT 5332 Max
3/ 5x and 4 or more / Max
3 6 or more Max
4 Blind Mad Licence with shape.

Control Bidder bids 2 Weak and Long s
Pass.
2NT Very Strong Omega Bid.

Control Bidder bids 3/ []/// 4x . Modified Bergen.
4 Usually 5x Pass.
Any Bid shows Max with a void.

(edit) B-)
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#3 User is offline   Bermy 

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Posted 2017-September-13, 22:09

One Spade Openings.


Major suit Openings show 11-13 Hcp when min and 13-15 Hcp when max. When holding 13 Hcp the hand should be judged as max or min by its shape. When holding two suiters, bid the major first, and always before .
Responses to 1:

Control Partner bids 1NT No 3 card support for Unsafe to Bid

Pass Min Hand
2 / 5x with 4 or more / Max
2 5x and 4 or more Max
2 6 or More Min
2NT 5332 Max
3 / 5x 2 suit Max
3 Blind Mad Bid
3 6 or more Max

Control Partner bids 2 One round artificial force. No Pass Available. Safe to Bid.

2 5x with 4 or more Min May or may not hold s
2 5x with 4 or more Min
2 5 or 6x Min
2NT 5332 Max
3 5x and 4 or more s Min
3 5x and 4 or more Max
3 5x and 4 or more Max
3 6 or more s Max

2 One round artificial force. No Pass Available. Safe to Bid. Ask for Stopper Information May not hold

2 Stopper in Min
2 5332 min or 6x Min
2NT 5332 Max.
3 5x and 4 or more Max
3 5x and 3 or more Max
3 5x and 4 or more Max
4 Blind Mad Licence with shape.

2 One Round Force No Pass Available Safe to Bid
2 or 6 Min
2NT 5332 Max
3 5x and 4 or more Min
3 5x and 4 or more Max
3 5x and 3 Min
3 6 or more Max
4 Support for Max
4 Blind Mad Max

2 Single Raise with 3x Pass. Min Hand. Unforced Unsafe to Bid.

2NT 5332 Solid Max
3 5x and 4 or more Max
3 5x and 4 or more Max
3 5x and 4 or more Max
3 6 or more Max
4 Blind Mad Licence with shape

2NT Very Strong Omega Bid. The Major General.

3 / / / 4x . Modified Bergen.
4 Usually 5x . Pass. Any Bid shows Max with a void. Blind Mad Bid.
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#4 User is offline   Bermy 

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Posted 2017-September-13, 22:43

(Simple) Modified Bergen


Control Precision Opening Bids
One Heart Openings
One Spade Openings

Bergen is used when Control Partner has four card support for a Major suit Opening. The Bergen bids have been modified slightly to deal with the weaker and limited Precision Openings.

Opening 1

Control Partner...............................................Blind Partner

2NT Very Strong Jacoby, asking for short suit relay....Omega Bids are now available.
3 4x 7-9 Hcp ... Safe to Bid (forcing) bid 3 Min and 4 Max
3 4x 10-12 Hcp... Very Safe to Bid bid 3 Min 4 Max
3 4x 0-6 Hcp... Unsafe to Bid Pass Min/Max
4 5 or more s... To Play Pass Min/Max

Opening 1.

Control Partner........................................Blind Partner
2NT Very Strong Jacoby, asking for short suit relay... Omega Bids.
3 4x 7-9 Hcp... Safe to Bid (forcing) bid 3 Min 4 Max
3 4x 10-12 Hcp... Very Safe to Bid bid 3 Min 4 or cue bid Max
3 4x 0-6 Hcp... Unsafe to Bid Pass Min/Max
4 5 or more s... To Play Pass Min/Max.

A more complex version will be discussed in Control Precison +
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#5 User is offline   Bermy 

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Posted 2017-September-13, 23:35

1 No Trump Openings


Our 1 No Trump Openings are always balanced with no singletons or voids. 5 card minors are included, but 5 card majors are not to be recommended in our language.
Balanced Hands

No Trump Bidding in Control Precision
13-15 Hcp Control Precision
14-16 Hcp Control Precision+

Control Bidder’s Responses
2 Stayman asking for majors, Safe to Bid but not game forcing
2 Transfer to Safe to Bid
2 Transfer to Safe to Bid
2 Showing Break of Transfer, Safe to Bid
2NT Showing Break of Transfer. Safe to Bid
3 Super Stayman Omega
3 Super Transfer to Omega
3 Super Transfer to Omega
3NT To Play.

Of course you may play 1NT openings any way you like really, this is our method. All methods work well, even dare I say it, Gib. :o

I am not really sure if it is a good idea to open 1NT with 2 doubletons, 9 cards in the minors, I prefer 1
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#6 User is offline   Bermy 

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Posted 2017-September-14, 08:43

2 Openings

Opening 2 has not differed much since the original CC Wei version, perhaps because it was so great and it worked.
We open 2 whenever we have 5x or more and another bid, of a 4 card major or 5 card and 11-15 Hcp. (2NT openings are also available for 5-5 minors, and I will discuss later)

Control Responses are.
2 serves as an all-purpose Safe to Bid relay, for further information on that second bid. If you want to bid out a nice suit, bid 2 first, as a relay.
Blind bidder bids:
2 min with 4x
2 min with 4x
2 NT max with 6x
3 min with 6x
3 5-5 or better with
3 max with 4x
3 max with 4x

Other Control Bids are available, 2 Major is Unsafe to Bid with cards in that major, and one should not bid on without a very good max.
2NT is our Omega bid sequence for a slam try when Control bidder has a huge hand. In the Omega sequence Control Bidder can ask for the exact holding information within any suit, by use of Omega Beta asking Bids.
3 is to play, don’t bid on unless Blind Mad. Control Bidder should not pass the 2 opening when 3 is a better option.
4 and 5 is to play.
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#7 User is offline   glen 

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Posted 2017-September-14, 19:33

So after 1-1NT or 1-1NT, opener passes on ALL minimums without 6+ in the major?

Don't answer that, please keep posting
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#8 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-September-15, 00:01

View Postglen, on 2017-September-14, 19:33, said:

So after 1-1NT or 1-1NT, opener passes on ALL minimums without 6+ in the major?

It looks pretty clear that little thought has gone into the 1M sequences, unfortunately. There are similar issues with 11-12hcp 5M332 hands after 1M - 2m and 11-12 5M4 hands after 1M - 2m. Just opening 1NT on 13-15 5M332 hands and playing a normal Precision (or sym relay) structure over 1M would be an obvious and immediate improvement. These are easy changes though - nothing fatal.

I think the bigger problems are going to come in competition due to the inflexible rules but it is difficult to be sure with everything so nebulously described. Hopefully more precise detail will come later - the system advantages have to be pretty amazing to offset the issues so I am hoping to learn something from them when they turn up.
(-: Zel :-)
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#9 User is offline   Bermy 

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Posted 2017-September-15, 02:51

View PostZelandakh, on 2017-September-15, 00:01, said:

It looks pretty clear that little thought has gone into the 1M sequences, unfortunately. There are similar issues with 11-12hcp 5M332 hands after 1M - 2m and 11-12 5M4 hands after 1M - 2m. Just opening 1NT on 13-15 5M332 hands and playing a normal Precision (or sym relay) structure over 1M would be an obvious and immediate improvement. These are easy changes though - nothing fatal.

I think the bigger problems are going to come in competition due to the inflexible rules but it is difficult to be sure with everything so nebulously described. Hopefully more precise detail will come later - the system advantages have to be pretty amazing to offset the issues so I am hoping to learn something from them when they turn up.


Comments noted.
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#10 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-September-15, 05:54

View PostBermy, on 2017-September-15, 02:51, said:

We don't need to start labeling fellow scholars as "wankers"

We wouldn't :blink: though I might label one of them "wank". Any particular reason you chose this term here?
(-: Zel :-)
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#11 User is offline   Bermy 

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Posted 2017-September-15, 22:50

View PostZelandakh, on 2017-September-15, 05:54, said:

We wouldn't :blink: though I might label one of them "wank". Any particular reason you chose this term here?

Yes, I have earmarked your problem for later discussion. Note I said "Would 2/1 handle that fit much better" without question mark for your limited English. Please stick to the subject and ask the right questions on the right feeds.
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#12 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-September-16, 06:52

View PostBermy, on 2017-September-15, 22:50, said:

Note I said "Would 2/1 handle that fit much better" without question mark for your limited English.

Rudeness again? Definitely a good way to make friends and influence people. :unsure:

Not to get side-tracked by grammatical details but in my limited English the sentence construction "Would <subject> <verb> <object>" is typically one of a question. There is a well-known construction starting with would that does not initiate a question but in that case in is always followed by a clause (Would that this bidding system matched the claims of its developer).

While we are on the subject of gramatical details, the correct bridge terms are Stayman (not Staymen) and suit (not suite). It is details such as this that led me to believe that you are not a native speaker. Are you? If so then I think we can genuinely start to write you off as a troll at tis stage; if not then we can make allowances and simply ask that you tone down your attitude.
(-: Zel :-)
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#13 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-September-16, 10:25

View PostBermy, on 2017-September-13, 20:59, said:

We avoid splinters in Control Precision as this becomes a reverse of control.


I think you are making a mistake here. If you have what you believe is a better use for the bids typically used as splinters, then fair enough. If not, you are depriving yourself of a useful tool for getting to thin slams.
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#14 User is offline   Bermy 

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Posted 2017-September-17, 23:20

View PostVampyr, on 2017-September-16, 10:25, said:

I think you are making a mistake here. If you have what you believe is a better use for the bids typically used as splinters, then fair enough. If not, you are depriving yourself of a useful tool for getting to thin slams.


I am not arguing for or against splinters. I am stating that it is reverse control and therefore inconsistent in this instance, and does not comply with our CP rules. In CP we have other ways of dealing with these hands, and they work very well too. Perhaps I am saying that they are better suited to 2/1. We do use splinters around our language, but they appear in another form.
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#15 User is offline   Bermy 

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Posted 2017-September-17, 23:22

View PostZelandakh, on 2017-September-16, 06:52, said:

Rudeness again? Definitely a good way to make friends and influence people. :unsure:

Not to get side-tracked by grammatical details but in my limited English the sentence construction "Would <subject> <verb> <object>" is typically one of a question. There is a well-known construction starting with would that does not initiate a question but in that case in is always followed by a clause (Would that this bidding system matched the claims of its developer).

While we are on the subject of gramatical details, the correct bridge terms are Stayman (not Staymen) and suit (not suite). It is details such as this that led me to believe that you are not a native speaker. Are you? If so then I think we can genuinely start to write you off as a troll at tis stage; if not then we can make allowances and simply ask that you tone down your attitude.


I will go back and edit my typos :(
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#16 User is offline   Bermy 

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Posted 2017-September-19, 22:15

I need to come back to that point now about that sequence 1 -1-2NT and other sequences where this 2NT bid applies.

As has already been pointed out, it would never work with 2 minimum hands. It is a Blind Mad Bid really, and to be used with care.
Within the language the bid is available, and its meaning should be clear, max 5332. However it is rather a specialist bid for when Blind partner should have a super good maximum. Aces and Kings with tails, not dames and splats.
In competition, this hand becomes easier to bid.

If applied correctly it serves as an invitational bid to Control Partner, who should know what to do.

;)
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